[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Bush INVADED Iraq, for NO reason based in truth, and it's cost us trillions.
Obama is bombing strategic targets, with NO boots on the ground.
You call this war.
What ISIS would gain by faking those beheadings rather than do them is beyond me in any case, I'm pretty sure that American bombing of ISIS positions is more related to ISIS's stated goals and the consequences of ISIS controlling a huge oil supply. The first bombs fell before anyone was beheaded, it wasn't reactionary.

We're bombing ISIS on Obama's own admission of "failed intel" and his own "mis judgment"

And boots are not on the ground YET- a few days of bombing, they still can't confirm what an impact it has done. Followed by a years worth of arming and training Naive to war soldiers?

You really think his "strategic" random bombings will end this war with ISIS?

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Economic sanctions tougher than any other nation on earth. Basically crippling N Korea. You can't just brush off the sanctions. Before the new sanctions of 2013 the North threatened to strike America over the sanctions . What did America do? Pulled out it's pen and signed more sanctions. The North is suffering greatly because of them.

And I'd have to disagree they threatened world peace greater. N Korea can only threaten S Korea, that's the extent of their capabilities. And S. Korea alone could handle the North without America. What modern capabilities the North has would be destroyed within days leaving them to only shooting mortars over a border. Any war the North provacates would be the end of that regime.
The fact nothing militarily has been done to the North isn't proof of our respect for their ability. It's more likely we're working a strategy. You're also incorrect that they face sanctions that's it. North Korea has threatened America numerous times with war for what we are doing. They say you better not do that or we'll attack you. And then we do it. Because they may threaten us, but aren't capable of carrying out those threats.

And if they continue, I'd bet they will eventually pay the price.

If South Korea was capable of it's own defence, America wouldn't have 50k troops stationed at the DMZ the north has a well equipped million man army, and china behind it.

They are constantly making threats, launching missiles over it's neighbours, and other provocative actions.m

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

We're bombing ISIS on Obama's own admission of "failed intel" and his own "mis judgment"

So what was it when the republicans harassed him repeatedly for not arming the Syrian " rebels", the rebels that it now turns out were isis?
If John McCain had things his way, ISIS would have had full military support years ago....... Was Obama perfect? No. But I can respect that he stood back to see how things developed, rather than decide who to support in a civil war based on a coin toss.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Let's be factually correct. Obama hasn't killed more top terrorist leaders. And the Navy went into Pakistan. Which was a Bush policy, and I believed the operation started under Bush. Obama didn't inherit Iraq. He signed up for it. It is his job to do whatever he can to make it successful. Not make it much worse.


"We’re leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq." That's what Obama said. . That's a foreign policy failure. Because it wasn't true. He's failed miserably at foreign policy.

The navy went into Pakistan, based on intelligence that said bin laden being there was 50/50.
Obama took that chance, something bush would Never have contemplated, and killed the worlds top terrorist.
He signed off on that mission, and watched it in real time.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

All that says to me, is that we have had two terms of fucked up leadership

There is NO room for sweeping blame. Obama started out his term blowing billions on pointless shit, makes them (bush/obama) even on crap spending. Both of them made crappy war decisions, both of them were called out on scandals, both of them had very questionable terms.

To say which was worse, usually won't come to light till after the end of term. Obama will be wrapped up in investigations for a few years to come after the term ends. At which point a real transparent tally will come up. For now we can only take everything Obama does as face value.

By "crappy stuff" you mean the stimulus spending right? The alternative to that was a complete financial meltdown....... Oh yeah, and those stimulus bills were started and approved by bush and congress. So you want to pin that on him as if it was a decision he could have declined

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

We're bombing ISIS on Obama's own admission of "failed intel" and his own "mis judgment"

And boots are not on the ground YET- a few days of bombing, they still can't confirm what an impact it has done. Followed by a years worth of arming and training Naive to war soldiers?

You really think his "strategic" random bombings will end this war with ISIS?

I do know that if saddam had been left in power, we would not be having this discussion right now..... So onc again, he's dealing with the fallout from his predecessors epic bad judgements.

At this point, it's time for the genocide to begin. Let Iran deal with it, turkey,the Saudis , it's their neighbourhood.
It's pretty obvious that the Iraqis don't care enough about Iraq to defend it, so why should we?

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

By "crappy stuff" you mean the stimulus spending right? The alternative to that was a complete financial meltdown....... Oh yeah, and those stimulus bills were started and approved by bush and congress. So you want to pin that on him as if it was a decision he could have declined

Obama didn't jump over here out of thin air and became president, You need to keep in mind he was one of those pecking little political birds biting at the POTUS ankles in the background along with that bulldagger and flamer. So yea, it is some of his "crappy stuff"

One of the luxuries of being Independent, is seeing when neither side can accept responsibility for being royal fuck ups.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by GODISNOTGREAT ↗

A) drawing a red line in Syria that he never backed up

B) allowing Putin to invade Eastern Europe with impunity

C) pulling our troops out of Iraq prematurely

D) acting as a one man show playing Commander in Chief and ignoring his military advisers

A- Putin hasn't invaded Ukraine any more than America has invaded half the world. They're supply military equipment and advice to the Crimean rebels, and that about it.
You keep speaking of this Russian invasion, but can present no evidence that it exists.

We can prove that Crimea voted over 90% in favour of joining Russia.

So how is this either-
A- a threat to us
B- any of our business

B- short of leaving troops in Iraq indefinitely, what's the solution? How many more trillion do you want to add on the debt ? Then you guys will bitch about that, just like you already have been doing
Seriously- what's the solution?

Drawing the red line in Syria that he didn't back up? Are you fucking retarded? Did you ever think MAYBE he realized that taking out Assad so ISIS could rule was a bad idea? You realize that it was ISIS fighting the government in Syria right

I don't know what advice he has ignored? Point me to to the right link though and I will definitely check it out.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Obama didn't jump over here out of thin air and became president, You need to keep in mind he was one of those pecking little political birds biting at the POTUS ankles in the background along with that bulldagger and flamer. So yea, it is some of his "crappy stuff"

One of the luxuries of being Independent, is seeing when neither side can accept responsibility for being royal fuck ups.

Right, so tell me what this "crappy stuff" consisted of, and tell me what other government has never wasted money.

Obama's massive debts are the bills for wars he didn't start, and stimulus spending for an economic meltdown he didn't create.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Right, so tell me what this "crappy stuff" consisted of, and tell me what other government has never wasted money.

Obama's massive debts are the bills for wars he didn't start, and stimulus spending for an economic meltdown he didn't create.

i would be here for a week to type out all the "crappy stuff" Obama wasted on, so no- I could copy and paste it but then I would just get the "you faux news people" (which I'm not) so I'll just say, If you don't know, then you just choose to turn a blind eye to it.

If you want to know My opinion on the topic, and the cost? Then proof is in the pudding of wasteful spending at 10m a day, and climbing to projected several hundred billion, that is IF "boots never hit the ground"

Could it have been avoided? Yea, with a better CURRENT team of leaders. I don't care about bush, i don't care about what happen pre-Obama, I don't care about who started what, it comes down to who is in lead NOW- So there is no avoiding the point, by tossing bush under the bus, Obama failed, simple as that.