[niknik]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

So let me get this straight, Bush signed an agreement that he nor any members of his Cabinet intended on following. Is that what you're trying to say, because it sounds that way..

You're right. Obama was just following Bush's extremely flawed plan. How'd that work out? That Obama. . Fooling us into believing he was making the decisions.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

So let me get this straight. Obama lied when he said vote for me because I'll pull the troops out. And Obama lied when he took credit for ending the Iraq war. ( but not really ) Because it had nothing at all to do with him.

You're insane. You obviously live in a world of political convenience. You believe whatever is convenient to support the Democrats.

You don't understand things. Like politics. Or how decisions are made and ultimately accomplished. Like how the status of forces agreement was passed. Or why. Because all you care about is defending Obama.

Middle East historian*Juan Cole has noted,*“Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.”

Obama failed to get it done. Because he didn't want to get it done. Bush did what he had to do to get us 3 more years. Obama did what he wanted to do for the 2012 campaign.

Obama gleefully pulled the troops out for votes. And now exactly what Bush warned of is reality. Thanks to Obama and Obama only.

It was no secret that Obama saw his election as a mandate to end the Iraq war. He said so himself. And he also said it was his decision to pull the troops out. Until shit hit the fan then he said it wasn't his choice. Because Obama and his administration are liars.

Perhaps the most dishonest administration ever, at least of modern Presidents.

Bush signed the deadline.

Obama knew what the outcome would be if he pulled out the troops on Bush's timeline, but he did it anyways, to fulfill election promises, and no doubt help his run in 2012.

So the question becomes- Is it Obama's fault for pulling out on a timeline that wasn't his own, a timeline that he knew could have disastrous consequences?
Or is it Bush's fault for going into a war of choice, with no exit plan in place? A war that HE knew would extend far beyond the length of his presidency?

And the worst part is, if he had NOT pulled the troops out the republicans would be trying to nail him for that.

This is where American politics has descended to. No matter what is right or wrong, the opposing side will try to use it for political gain. In the end the whole nation suffers for it.

[Mr Poo]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Bush signed the deadline.

Obama knew what the outcome would be if he pulled out the troops on Bush's timeline, but he did it anyways, to fulfill election promises, and no doubt help his run in 2012.

So the question becomes- Is it Obama's fault for pulling out on a timeline that wasn't his own, a timeline that he knew could have disastrous consequences?
Or is it Bush's fault for going into a war of choice, with no exit plan in place? A war that HE knew would extend far beyond the length of his presidency?

And the worst part is, if he had NOT pulled the troops out the republicans would be trying to nail him for that.

This is where American politics has descended to. No matter what is right or wrong, the opposing side will try to use it for political gain. In the end the whole nation suffers for it.

Can definitely agree with you on that one..

[TheVrist]

At least poo, and rob, are finally conceding to the fact BOTH bush and Obama was simply failures

Well maybe not directly, but imo, saying all politics are playing the same self serving game is enough.

A none politically driven POTUS would put his approval ratings on the line to do whats is right for the country.

I just hope the next canidate doesn't follow the blaming game trend, and at least gets something right.

[niknik]

I think rob and poo both need to read about the Bush status of forces agreement. And how and why that was signed. And the strategy going forward.

And it goes without saying but don't read it from a political site. Because you're both ignoring many facts to give Obama a pass. And arguing a point that didn't exist until things went bad in Iraq. Doesn't that tell you something?

[niknik]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

At least poo, and rob, are finally conceding to the fact BOTH bush and Obama was simply failures

Well maybe not directly, but imo, saying all politics are playing the same self serving game is enough.

A none politically driven POTUS would put his approval ratings on the line to do whats is right for the country.

I just hope the next canidate doesn't follow the blaming game trend, and at least gets something right.

I really don't think its possible to elect anyone more dishonest than Obama's administration.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I really don't think its possible to elect anyone more dishonest than Obama's administration.

Well, how can we blame obama though? In reality it was never his campaign that got him elected, without Axelrod, and a heavy team of highly skilled strategists, he would have still been a stuttering fool that couldn't even keep track of what was said in his prior speeches.

Most of his personal ideas were shelved. The whole "change" campaigning was leaned on, because it had people (voters) in the croweds dancing around like baboons.

[ralucagymnast]

Has anyone noticed how the Ukraine thing has died down? Seems Vlad has got what he wanted with minimum pressure from the West. I actually believe that Russia is somehow involved with the whole ISIS thing to be honest. Part of Russias proxy war against the USA and NATO.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by ralucagymnast ↗

Has anyone noticed how the Ukraine thing has died down? Seems Vlad has got what he wanted with minimum pressure from the West. I actually believe that Russia is somehow involved with the whole ISIS thing to be honest. Part of Russias proxy war against the USA and NATO.

I seriously doubt Russia would supply Islamic Extremist with intentions of harming The United States. If Russia is supplying any group in Syria it's not doing so for their weaponry to be used on American assets.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Well, how can we blame obama though? In reality it was never his campaign that got him elected, without Axelrod, and a heavy team of highly skilled strategists, he would have still been a stuttering fool that couldn't even keep track of what was said in his prior speeches.

Most of his personal ideas were shelved. The whole "change" campaigning was leaned on, because it had people (voters) in the croweds dancing around like baboons.

But look at his long list of epic accomplishments. .

#1 He killed Osama Bin Laden.
#2 ?

Well it's not all that long i suppose.

I have to question Obama getting credit for Bin Laden. In light of Obama not accepting blame for pulling the troops out, citing it was Bush's plan.
Well killing Bin Laden was also Bush's plan. And Bush's plan is what lead to finding him. So Obama was only following a Bush strategy to kill him.