[LiquidSky]

Originally Posted by rapeWhistle ↗

Sorry, they wouldn't stop crying

<3

[LiquidSky]

Originally Posted by diamondsmiles ↗

Looked it up.

Amniotic fluid is not breathable so therefore babies can not breath it into lungs and drown. Amniotic fluid cushions the baby.

Thanks for checking. But can't they swallow poop if they shit in the womb??

[IC10021]

Originally Posted by LiquidSky

As far as the fetus having fluid in the lungs and possibly being drowned:

I am not a scientist or a forensic pathologist by any stretch, but I wonder if it is possible for the fetus to have somehow aspirated on amniotic fluid while in the womb/being born. I don't know if this is absolutely indicative of murder. Can they tell the difference during an autopsy?
[/i]

Originally Posted by diamondsmiles ↗

Looked it up.

Amniotic fluid is not breathable so therefore babies can not breath it into lungs and drown. Amniotic fluid cushions the baby.

A couple things:

1) Below follows info re amniotic fluid in lungs (from http://allnurses.com/nicu-nursing-ne...uid-54095.html). Notably, it points out that in a vaginal birth, which this was, generally squeezes out amniotic fluid from the baby's lungs before the baby starts breathing. This aids survival of the baby.

2) That said, I also agree w DS: Ms. Rodriguez should have called 911 or an ambulance. But that is me; I can't project my state-of-mind onto this girl, who is way not like me. Unlike many, this girl, as a teen, envisioned having children in her life.

Kids are gonna make mistakes; the problem is that they need to be able to find help when they need it. This girl wasn't doing that. She wasn't able or willing to find the help she needed for herself and for her baby. We may never know why.

These circumstances suggest that this mom wasn't seeing a obstetrician. For some reason (possibly because she was immature at 17), she wasn't caring for herself properly and, as a result, she wasn't caring for the baby properly. Because she was carrying a "secret" pregnancy (likely out of fear), she may have felt any help she needed was out of reach for her when the baby's health was in jeopardy.

Had she been taking care of herself and seeing an obstetrician, she would have had someone to call when she needed help and guidance at the time of birth or miscarriage.

Why or how she got pregnant, carried the pregnancy, delivered in virtual secret, didn't call 911 for herself after delivering or miscarrying, didn't call 911 for the baby pre- or post-birth, didn't report the death of the baby, but instead chose to put the body of the baby into a bag and carry it with her into Victoria's Secret where she proceeded to shoplift (w her thieving "buddy") etc. -- those are all good questions for which we have no answers at this moment. She stated she didn't know what to do. Seems an understatement, imo.

As a minor, she is entitled to some special considerations. Its not as though she picked up a gun and started shooting (unlike young men seem to like to do). What about the adults in her life -- where were they? How was she pressured into keeping her pregnancy secret? Who pressured her? Why? Where is the father of this baby? Is the identity of this baby's father also a "secret"? Who is the father of this baby -- perhaps another teen or an adult relative or even a teacher? Why hadn't she called him in her time of need?

3) Did her friend also not know what to do? It would seem that her thieving buddy might be just as culpable, if not more so, if she knew the baby needed help and if her failure to call 911 resulted in the baby's death. No?

What if the "friend" failed to report the death of the baby? Is the friend also culpable in that? Is failing to report a miscarriage a crime? (No.) Is failing to report a stillborn a crime? (No.) What about disposing of the body? (Not a crime.)

Still, it is frustrating that these almost-adults are so incapable of healthy thinking and behavior. (Go to a doctor!!!) Still, I sympathize with the young women when they are confused. Our society is at extreme odds with itself about the right ways to think about and regard pregnancies, abortions, fetuses both viable and non, and women, generally. To me, it seems reasonable to believe that this mom did not know what to do (except for the shoplifting part). It would seem she is in good company. (See interesting article: http://www.minnpost.com/second-opini...-womens-health).

__________

http://allnurses.com/nicu-nursing-ne...uid-54095.html

Jan 13, '04 by NICU_Nurse
In utero, your baby's lungs are filled with amniotic fluid (which is essentially composed of shed skin cells, fetal urine, etc.) and are "inflated". The baby doesn't receive oxygen this way; your baby gets his/her oxygen through your umbilical cord. I have seen sites that mention something about the baby "practicing breathing motions" while in utero, but if any site is claiming that they actually breathe while they are inside of you, it is incorrect.

When your baby is born vaginally, the act of squeezing through the vaginal opening basically compresses the baby's chest and squeezes out that fluid. When an infant is born via c-section, he/she misses out on this natural squeezing, and thus is prone to more respiratory complications than if it had been born vaginally.

If meconium (which is the baby's fecal matter- a thick, slick, sticky, evergreen colored stool) is passed while your baby is still inside of you, it can cover the baby's skin (including the face and mouth) and can get into the oral cavity while the baby is still within your amniotic sac. When the baby is born and takes his/her first breath, it may actually inhale that meconium, as Mimi mentioned, which can be a serious problem. If a baby is born after passing meconium inside of you, the doctors wouldn't stimulate the baby (like you see in the movies- a pat on the bottom? Though that, too, is a misrepresentation; stimulation usually comes from rubbing the baby, not hitting!). Instead, they'd quickly take the baby to a warmer while suctioning his/her mouth and throat to get the meconium out before the baby tries to breathe."

[rapeWhistle]

Originally Posted by IC10021 ↗

As a minor, she is entitled to some special considerations. Its not as though she picked up a gun and started shooting (unlike young men seem to like to do). What about the adults in her life -- where were they? How was she pressured into keeping her pregnancy secret? Who pressured her? Why? Where is the father of this baby? Is the identity of this baby's father also a "secret"? Who is the father of this baby -- perhaps another teen or an adult relative or even a teacher? Why hadn't she called him in her time of need?

Is smothering someone to death any less violent an act than shooting them?
Some would say it is more physical and therefore much more violent - and takes a more fucked up person to do it.

Again with the irrelevant male-bashing.
Most 'young men' aren't murders, sure more murders are committed by males than females, but i think you'll find the percentage of Men who have committed a murder to be less than 1% of the population.

Where's the Dad?!

Uhhh, she was HIDING THE PREGNANCY!

Chances are the dude who knocked her up had no idea!

Shit, if she's already 17 and has two fuck-trophies she probably isn't even sure who the baby-daddy is. Whomever it is clearly doesn't have much taste in women, the bitch is built like a bean-bag chair.

Originally Posted by IC10021 ↗

Still, I sympathize with the young women when they are confused. Our society is at extreme odds with itself about the right ways to think about and regard pregnancies, abortions, fetuses both viable and non, and women, generally. [B]To me, it seems reasonable to believe that this mom did not know what to do (except for the shoplifting part). It would seem she is in good company.

"Confused"..?!


Bottom line:
She's a ho-bag, a theif, and a baby-killer... fuck her.

[IC10021]

Originally Posted by rapeWhistle ↗

Is smothering someone to death any less violent an act than shooting them?
Some would say it is more physical and therefore much more violent - and takes a more fucked up person to do it.

Again with the irrelevant male-bashing.
Most 'young men' aren't murders, sure more murders are committed by males than females, but i think you'll find the percentage of Men who have committed a murder to be less than 1% of the population.

Where's the Dad?!

Uhhh, she was HIDING THE PREGNANCY!

Chances are the dude who knocked her up had no idea!

Shit, if she's already 17 and has two fuck-trophies she probably isn't even sure who the baby-daddy is. Whomever it is clearly doesn't have much taste in women, the bitch is built like a bean-bag chair.


"Confused"..?!


Bottom line:
She's a ho-bag, a theif, and a baby-killer... fuck her.

Hey, buddy, RW --

Your name-calling is intentionally inflammatory and otherwise useless; grow up.

If your male sexist misogynistic "thinking" hadn't earned low-ratings before, you sure earned them in this last post. Thanks for saving me the trouble of having any self-doubt, lol!

Let me guess: You're a guy, right? So, realistically, what would you know about anyone's personal experience in high-risk pregnancies, birthing babies, early, at home, or otherwise?

Do the world a favor: Stick to spouting off about the few things you may really know something about. Otherwise, go back under the rock you crawled out from, cause you'll do the world a lot more good from back there.

tx -- ic

(Don't forget your beer).

-- ic

[Sharon]

Please keep flaming out of this forum. If not, you may be banned as there is a zero tolerance policy to trolling and flaming outside of the WC.

[DiamondSmiles]

Originally Posted by IC10021 ↗

A couple things:


If meconium (which is the baby's fecal matter- a thick, slick, sticky, evergreen colored stool) is passed while your baby is still inside of you, it can cover the baby's skin (including the face and mouth) and can get into the oral cavity while the baby is still within your amniotic sac. When the baby is born and takes his/her first breath, it may actually inhale that meconium, as Mimi mentioned, which can be a serious problem. If a baby is born after passing meconium inside of you, the doctors wouldn't stimulate the baby (like you see in the movies- a pat on the bottom? Though that, too, is a misrepresentation; stimulation usually comes from rubbing the baby, not hitting!). Instead, they'd quickly take the baby to a warmer while suctioning his/her mouth and throat to get the meconium out before the baby tries to breathe."[/INDENT][/COLOR]

So, the next time someone tells you to, "eat shit," you can say, "Perhaps I did, but, I don't recall."

[Agapeti]

The stone-faced teen sat mutely inside a Manhattan courtroom, her face betraying no trace of the shock, horror and loss of the last 48 hours.
Teen mom Tiona Rodriguez maintained her stoic facade Saturday during a brief hearing on charges that she shoplifted a $44.50 pair of skinny jeans from Victoria’s Secret. Barely mentioned at the appearance was the corpse of her newborn son, discovered Thursday by stunned store security guards searching her bags for stolen merchandise.
“I don’t want to ignore the elephant in the room, but we are only arraigning the shoplifts,” said Assistant District Attorney Robert Hettleman.
Rodriguez remained dispassionate during her appearance. “One can only imagine how she feels,” said defense attorney Genay Ann Leitman, stating the obvious.

But her demeanor stood in stark contrast with her shoplifting co-defendant Francis Estevez, 17.
The weeping girl embraced her sobbing mother inside the courtroom, jumping in her parent’s lap after state Supreme Court Judge Debra James released Estevez without bail. As Estevez sat in court, more than a dozen cops and detectives descended on her Queens home with a crime scene unit truck and two other vehicles, a neighbor said.
Cops believe Rodriguez gave birth in Estevez’s home in Glendale. The investigators spent two hours going through an upstairs apartment where Estevez’s family lives.
A downstairs tenant said cops told him they were “investigating the bathtub for remains.”
Both girls sat quietly in white T-shirts as they awaited arraignment in the shoplifting case. The only time Rodriguez, 17, appeared to speak was to ask a court officer for the time. She was rushed out of the court by a man identified as her uncle without saying a word — and she’s due to sit down with a psychiatrist this week, according to Leitman.
The mom of a 2-year-old son pulled a red hoodie tight around her face as she headed for home.
“Anyone would be traumatized by the entire situation,” Leitman said after the arraignment.
Rodriguez pleaded not guilty to the shoplifting charges. Hettleman did reference the gruesome discovery of the dead 8 1/2-pound baby boy inside Rodriguez’s canvas bag as the two friends exited the flagship Victoria’s Secret store in Herald Square. Cops said Rodriguez lied to police, claiming that she was six months pregnant when she suffered a miscarriage Wednesday. An autopsy two days later determined the boy was born alive — and nearly full term at eight months. Officials said the autopsy was inconclusive as to how the baby died. Police sources said asphyxiation was among the possible causes of death. The medical examiner’s office insisted the cause was still under investigation. Prosecutors aren’t likely to elevate charges against Rodriguez before investigators determine how the boy died. Hettleman made it clear that the dead-baby case was the top priority.
“The NYPD, my office, and the office of the chief medical examiner are going to continue to vigorously and thoroughly investigate this matter relating to the baby,” he said. “But at this time, doing that shoplifting with the baby in her bag the entire time certainly suggests a little bit of difficulty following society’s rules.”
The two girls were accused of swiping more than $200 worth of clothes, cosmetics and an iPhone 5 case, sources said. Rodriguez’s neighbor, Jamilla Daise, 36, described her as “a good girl that just got caught up in a bad situation.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.1490637

She is the one with glasses on in the first pic.

[Agapeti]

More pics of Tiona Rodriguez and an update on possible charges.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1521276

[invertigo]

What on earth? I can't make heads or tails of this case. Absolutely bizarre