[winvens]

Originally Posted by ralucagymnast ↗

Yep business as usual for the USSR. People need to forget this illusion of democracy in Russia. It will never be a democracy. Too many think of Russia as a "near abroad" (Zbigniew Brzezinsky "The Grand Chessboard") but most of its territory is more Asian than European. Its more relevant to think of Russia as we would think of China.

Damn right. "European" Russia is a tiny enclave compared to the rest of the nation.

For all the griping we do about our own governments they don't come close to the likes of Russia, China, North Korea and so on.

We're lucky and take it for granted.

[kellyhound]

was the city cleaning car and driver tracked down ? as i'm sure he was into it (too)

[CrunchyCripple]

We all kill those who get in our way. When we have power, it becomes easy to get rid of those that get under our skin.

As history(and the present) has proven, time and time again.

If someone is doing something or acting in a way we don't like, we think it's ok to "get rid of them".

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Putin is a mass murderer. The list of people he's suspected of murdering is hundreds of names long.
Most notably was during the war with Chechnya. When several bombs went off in apartment buildings in several Russian cities.
It was and still is believed to have been done on Putins orders. As a legitimate reason to start a war campaign in Chechnya. Which Putin did.
In fact a few days after the bombings another device was found in a apartment building and defused. The local police investigation found three FSB agents who planted the device. And Putins administration said it was a training exercise.
Later a investigation was started, well attempted, but was blocked by Russian parliament (Putin).
So a independent investigation was started, but got nowhere due to Putins administration completely not responding for documents or evidence. Two of the top investigators were later assassinated, and their lawyer arrested.
During the Chechnya war several Russian journalist who covered the front lines were also assassinated on their return to Russia.
Many investigators and journalists, leaders of opposition groups have been assassinated since Putin took office.
There is no democracy in Russia. Putin is a tyrant, and he won't be ousted in any election. That's why he created 24 hour propaganda agencies such as Russia Today. Who carefully orchestrate the public opinion in Russia with misinformation. And rally nationalistic support by creating false threats against Russia.
All designed specifically to get support for Putin. It would be like (and I'm positive he would if he could) Obama banning all news agencies except msnbc. Well, and he took over msnbc.

Chechnya, there were no Islamic militants there?

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Chechnya, there were no Islamic militants there?

You know what makes it easy for a tyrant to take over a democracy? Look a Chenchnya. Perfect example.


When war breaks out on a homeland, opponents of the government, become traitors to their nation.
What's even more interesting, is the entire bs story Russia used to grab Crimea. As far as the Ukrainian and Russian people in that area wanted to break away from Ukraine.
Russia really had a problem letting Chechnya break away.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

You know what makes it easy for a tyrant to take over a democracy? Look a Chenchnya. Perfect example.


When war breaks out on a homeland, opponents of the government, become traitors to their nation.
What's even more interesting, is the entire bs story Russia used to grab Crimea. As far as the Ukrainian and Russian people in that area wanted to break away from Ukraine.
Russia really had a problem letting Chechnya break away.

Georgia, perfect example.

When the breakup of the Soviet Union was imminent, Georgia wanted and was granted it's independence.
The only problem was there were areas still loyal to Russia, that identified as Russian, and wanted to remain such.

These areas were granted a degree of autonomy, until a right wing nationalist leader took over in Georgia.

He decided that not only would he try to bring Georgia into NATO, on Russia's doorstep, he would also take control over the autonomous areas by force, which he did.

Russia responded by protecting it's interests in the area.

Crimea has zero interest in being a part of Ukraine. If it was put to a referendum again tomorrow, with international oversight of the election, the vote would be the same.

Without even getting into the legalities that enable Russia to have a force in Crimea, as part of the deal that gave Ukraine it's independence.

[ralucagymnast]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Georgia, perfect example.

When the breakup of the Soviet Union was imminent, Georgia wanted and was granted it's independence.
The only problem was there were areas still loyal to Russia, that identified as Russian, and wanted to remain such.

These areas were granted a degree of autonomy, until a right wing nationalist leader took over in Georgia.

He decided that not only would he try to bring Georgia into NATO, on Russia's doorstep, he would also take control over the autonomous areas by force, which he did.

Russia responded by protecting it's interests in the area.

Crimea has zero interest in being a part of Ukraine. If it was put to a referendum again tomorrow, with international oversight of the election, the vote would be the same.

Without even getting into the legalities that enable Russia to have a force in Crimea, as part of the deal that gave Ukraine it's independence.

I can imagine that Ukraine are kicking themselves now that they gave up the worlds 3rd biggest nuclear arsenal for its independence. It would have been a very different picture for sure, i.e. Russia would not have invaded them for sure.

[kellyhound]

Head of the Russian Security Service Alexander Bortnikov has announced that there are suspects in the investigation into the murder of prominent Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov.
"There are always some," he said in reply to reporters' questions.

The investigators are pursuing several lines of inquiry, including a contract killing. On March 3, Nemtsov was buried at Moscow’s Troyekurovo cemetery.

Car tied to Nemtsov killing belongs to enterprise serving government bodies

The car sought in connection with the murder of Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov belongs to a federal state unitary enterprise (FSUE) providing services to the Finance Ministry, Goznak, the Russian state body that prints banknotes, and other agencies, the Finance Ministry said earlier on Wednesday.

"The Ford car we are talking about does not belong to the Finance Ministry," the ministry’s press service told TASS. "This is a vehicle of an in-house security service, an independent FSUE providing services to the Finance Ministry, Goznak and other bodies."

"At the moment the FSUE car was crossing the bridge, a patrol vehicle and police officers were already there," the ministry noted.

A number of media outlets reported that the police were looking for the car, which fled the scene and which allegedly belonged to the Russian Finance Ministry.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Georgia, perfect example.

When the breakup of the Soviet Union was imminent, Georgia wanted and was granted it's independence.
The only problem was there were areas still loyal to Russia, that identified as Russian, and wanted to remain such.

These areas were granted a degree of autonomy, until a right wing nationalist leader took over in Georgia.

He decided that not only would he try to bring Georgia into NATO, on Russia's doorstep, he would also take control over the autonomous areas by force, which he did.

Russia responded by protecting it's interests in the area.

Crimea has zero interest in being a part of Ukraine. If it was put to a referendum again tomorrow, with international oversight of the election, the vote would be the same.

Without even getting into the legalities that enable Russia to have a force in Crimea, as part of the deal that gave Ukraine it's independence.

I see that point. I'm not convinced however that Russia wasn't behind the support in Georgia, and in Ukraine.
You realize more than 50% of Russians believe America never landed on the moon.
They believe the CIA led coup is what ousted Ukrainian President. Not the fact he lied to get elected.
That says a lot, the president was elected because he wanted to join EU. Not NATO. He promised to become western economic partners. And he won on that message.
But when it became time to fulfill that promise he reneged.
That is why Ukraine fell apart, because Russia managed to get a puppet elected in Ukraine.
When that fell apart Russia invaded and took by force what they wanted.
And as far as Georgia wanting to be supported by NATO. I believe that was also something Russia created.
Look at it now, Russia took them by force. So it would seem Georgia wanting to join NATO was a very justified need for survival.
Or was it that Russia pushed Georgia that direction as a means to to get what they wanted.
Russia isn't trying to coexist. In 2008 they wanted and attempted to collapse American currency. Russia tried but only failed because China would not help. China told us this.
The propaganda machine in Russia is the strongest in the world. So I don't buy Crimea was legitimate for many reasons. But the main reason is they were fed bullshit. All their fears were created by Russia. Both threw propaganda and through activism.
You have to realize Russia is on war footing. We are not witnessing disagreements in policies. We are witnessing the first stages of WW3.
Russia is looking to collapse our economy, and make the dollar crash.
And I'm not certain we will stop them. People want to complain about America being all over the world. Not understanding the void we leave as we back off, and stop protecting our assets.
Not understanding that the power America has had for decades is important for the west survival. It's not like the chair America holds is going to go to the world collectively. But to Russia, or China, or Iran.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by ralucagymnast ↗

I can imagine that Ukraine are kicking themselves now that they gave up the worlds 3rd biggest nuclear arsenal for its independence. It would have been a very different picture for sure, i.e. Russia would not have invaded them for sure.

Ya that was a nice deal for Russia. Make sure all former Soviet States remained weak and powerless. As Russia remained basically in control of them through economic, military threat, or with resources such as natural gas.
And if they even hint that they want to go a different direction Russia takes it as a direct threat.
So basically those states are to forever remain slaves to Russia.