[raisin]

I wouldn't say that I despise jews, but some of the things they are doing in the state of Israel worries me, just as much as Palestinian aggressions worry me. But I can't understand the irongrip they're keeping on the westbank and the gaza-strip, it seems a little overpowered to me, and that they are starting to force it a little bit to justify an open war to regain the last bits of the surrounding area.

Aggressions against the other Israeli neighbours are understandable to me though, because Israel doesn't have the same deadlock on those nations, and possibly couldn't get that same deadlock either way, so it IS only natural that they have to defend themselves. All in all I just don't enjoy the fact that they've dammed the Palestinians as restrictively as they have, and that they're STILL hungering for more. I can understand the threat the separatistmovements are causing, but I just can't understand the justifications of the actions behind tradeembargoes, preventing of humanitarian intervention NOT condoned by Israel, the crawling taking of even MORE land to further push the Palestinians, etc ... I think they have won, and I think they can all come to a peaceful resolution given that Israel'd low it down a little on the restrictions and let the Palestinians see a higher living standard, a hungered man is more interested in fighting for the last scraps rather than give them up...

And for gods sake, WHAT is it those settlers really want !? Their own pieces of land ? Pieces of land that aren't even farmable or capable of sustaining livestock ? The rationalisation in just OWNING a piece of land is completely beyond me, I'd rather rent a sustainable piece of land so long as it'd be more profitable for me than owning my own.

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by Sharon. ↗

What logical reason do people in this part of the world have for despising Jews?

They believe their own lies.

[prax22a]

Originally Posted by shoottokill ↗

POS? did u mean:
A. Point of Sale
B. Polycystic Ovary Syndrome
C. Piece Of Shit
D. Professional Operating System

I give kudos if u meant B. Why don't you sharpen your horns and ponder over it for a while.

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by raisin ↗

The only thing REALLY pissing me off about this is the fact that civilian and peaceful citizens from palestine wouldn't have even SCRATCHED this surface of trouble in Knesset...

It's tragic that Israel, with a defense force capable of overturning the Palestinians at EVERY roadblock feel so pressured by their own hunger for full control and their fear of losing it that they've started fueling it towards a totalitarian state, this IS how nazi-germany founded itself, more or less, build a hate, hunger for a restored glory, and most of all, a regained honor and freedom to play on the worldscene, it is a little bit scary.

Please tell me if you recognize these names... Who they are... and where they work. Each person is famous in Israel and well known. If you don't know who these people are then how do you feel you have a right to speak on things you are ignorant about. Ask questions and get answers. Do some research. Educate yourself on reality rather than fanciful media lies.


Afu Agbaria
Hamad Amar
Yisrael Beiteinu
Mohammad Barakeh
Masud Ghnaim
Ayoob Kara
Raleb Majadele
Said Nafa
Ibrahim Sarsur
Hana Sweid
Ahmad Tibi
Majalli Wahabi
Jamal Zahalka
Haneen Zoabi

You speak of the Israel Knesset as if you even know anything about it. You are wrong.

[prax22a]

Originally Posted by Sharon. ↗

What logical reason do people in this part of the world have for despising Jews?

Left-wing propaganda in the media has a lot to do with it

[raisin]

I think that I've already stated what I think and believe about their right to a defense, JohnLee, and these camps you are talking about is being enforced by an Israeli tradeembargo, as have also been stated, they are effectively cut off from help, and Israel is SURELY helping in keeping up the pressure. I don't understand what your need for lecturing me on the founding of the state of Israel is all about, I don't favor ANY aggressions performed by either agitator, I merely state that one form of agitation is more understandable due to the amount of force and pressure applied by a reaction.

And yes, you have that right, I know next to nothing about the Knesset, other than the fact that muslim parties are in HEAVY mandate pressure, where that pressure comes from I don't know, all I know is that a LARGE group of people DOESN'T seem to be thoroughly heard, will you care to explain that to me, please ?

And I'll also ask, why is it that there is currently only 14 members in the Knesset that are Arabs, and what is the justification of that ? I take it you don't need a citation with the knowledge you seem to possess.

[johnleeknoefler]

1. IDF to Take Offensive in Gaza If Missile Attacks Resume
by Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu

The IDF’s “tit-for-tat” response will be replaced by an offensive in Gaza if missile attacks resume, Chief of Staff, Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Security Committee Tuesday.

He told the Knesset Members on the panel that if Hamas and allied terrorists initiative a new round of fighting, “We will need to shorten the length of fighting as much as possible.”

Improved intelligence has enabled the military to pre-empt dozens of terrorists’ missile attacks on southern Israel.

The Air Force on Monday successful targeted a terrorist cell trying to launch advanced long-range missiles. At least one terrorist was killed and seven others wounded in the aerial strike, which General Gantz said “inhibited the advancement of Islamic Jihad's rocket production.”

He also pointed out that potential trouble spots exist throughout Israel, especially in Judea and Samaria and at the Egyptian border, and that there is a constant threat of terrorists infiltrating from the Sinai and Judea and Samaria.

Gantz told the Knesset committee that the chance of renewed violence in Judea and Samaria increases in face of disappointment by the Palestinian Authority over its apparent failure to win recognition by the United Nations Security Council.

The Chief of Staff’s political views over the years have been dovish. When he was commander of the Hevron Brigade, during the short period when those with dovish views thought the Oslo Accords might work, he invited the area's Jewish civilian security officers to meet with Palestinian Authority security officials in order to promote cooperation.

The Jewish communities’ security officers rejected the invitation, not being willing to trade information. Shortly afterwards, the Oslo War, also known as the Second Intifada, broke out, with PA soldiers using rifles given to them by the Israeli government.

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by raisin ↗

I think that I've already stated what I think and believe about their right to a defense, JohnLee, and these camps you are talking about is being enforced by an Israeli tradeembargo, as have also been stated, they are effectively cut off from help, and Israel is SURELY helping in keeping up the pressure. I don't understand what your need for lecturing me on the founding of the state of Israel is all about, I don't favor ANY aggressions performed by either agitator, I merely state that one form of agitation is more understandable due to the amount of force and pressure applied by a reaction.

And yes, you have that right, I know next to nothing about the Knesset, other than the fact that muslim parties are in HEAVY mandate pressure, where that pressure comes from I don't know, all I know is that a LARGE group of people DOESN'T seem to be thoroughly heard, will you care to explain that to me, please ?

And I'll also ask, why is it that there is currently only 14 members in the Knesset that are Arabs, and what is the justification of that ? I take it you don't need a citation with the knowledge you seem to possess.

Since you are polite and seem to be sincere I will answer your concerns as best I am able.

First off I notice you are from Denmark so obviously you would not understand that Israel is a free and democratic nation with elections.

As to your question:

why is it that there is currently only 14 members in the Knesset that are Arabs, and what is the justification of that

From the qualifier

only

I take you to mean that you are dissatisfied with the current makeup of the Knesset and you feel there should be more Arabs? Why the fuck is it any of your business how many Arab Jew haters there are in Knesset? How many Jews are there serving in the Syrian equivalent? Or in Egyption equivalent? Or in Tunisia how many Jews are allowed to serve as government representatives of Jews? If an Arab Muslim wants to run as prime minister of Israel he is free to do so. If no one votes for him it's his own effing loss and it's none of your fucking business. Obviously you don't know the first thing about free elections. You want fair? You don't know the meaning of the word. Fair would be for ALL children of Jews to be returned to their parents. Not one Arab child has been stolen from an Arab family by a Jewish family. But Jewish children are stolen by Arabs. Young girls are seduced and enticed to go to Arab areas and they are never seen again by their families. Some will contact their parents years later when they have children and beg for rescue after being kept under lock and key for years. No. You don't understand or want fairness. You speak of Jews stealing Arab land. Arab land is in ARABIA. They got ALL of the mandate EAST of JORDAN. That's 80%. It's more than fair. What the fuck!. Don't you want to at least address that?

these camps you are talking about is being enforced by an Israeli tradeembargo

It amazes me that you wrote that with a straight face. Or were you laughing your ass off for making a crude lie into a joke? Here are the facts about where the refugee camps are and who controls the refugees.

Lebanon

The total number of registered refugees in Lebanon is about 422,000.

There are 12 official camps with 225,125 refugees.

The Palestinians' Lebanese camps became ghettos as the Palestinians were barred from citizenship, finding certain jobs, or traveling abroad. Some of these refugee camps, overcrowded and filled with angry refugees, helped seed the beginnings of Yasser Arafat's Fatah group; guerrilla attacks on Israel were launched from some of the Palestinian camps in Lebanon.

Following major armed conflict in one camp in 2007, the Lebanese government sought greater input into the rebuilding of the camp, and in the camp's ongoing management. The government wanted the ability to intervene in the future, and to exercise police powers there instead of the Palestinian armed forces that had policed the camp previously.

1955, Beddawi camp, 15,695
1948, Burj el-Barajneh, 19,526
1955, Burj el-Shemali, 18,134
1956, Dbayeh, 4,223
Dikwaneh, destroyed
1948, Ein el-Hilweh, 44,133
1948, El-Buss, 9,840
Jisr el-Basha, destroyed
1952, Mar Elias, 1,406
1954, Mieh Mieh, 5,078
Nabatieh camp, destroyed in 1973
1949, Nahr al-Bared, 28,358 destroyed in 2007
1963, Rashidieh, 24,679
Sabra destroyed
1949, Shatila, 11,998
1948, Wavel, 7,357

Syria

Syria has 10 official camps with 119,776 refugees.
1950, Dera'a, 5,916
1967, Dera'a (Emergency), 5,536
1950, Hama, 7,597
1949, Homs, 13,825
1948, Jaramana, 5,007
1950, Khan Dunoun, 8,603
1949, Khan Eshieh, 15,731
1948, Neirab, 17,994
1967, Qabr Essit, 16,016
1948, Sbeineh, 19,624
1955-6, Latakia camp, 6,534 registered refugees
1957, Yarmouk (Damascus), 112,550 registered refugees
1962, Ein Al-Tal, 4,329 registered refugees

Gaza Strip

The Gaza Strip has eight official camps with 478,854 refugees.
1948, Beach camp (Shati), 76,109
1949, Bureij, 30,059
1948, Deir el-Balah camp, 20,188
1948, Jabalia (Jabaliya), 103,646
1949, Khan Yunis, 60,662
1949, Maghazi, 22,536
1949, Nuseirat, 64,233
1949, Rafah camp, 90,638

Keep in mind that the Gaza camps are not administered by Israel. Hamas effectively controls those camps.

West Bank

The West Bank has 19 official camps with 194,514 refugees.
1950, Aida, 4,151
1949, Am'ari, 8,083
1948, Aqabat Jabr, 5,197
1950, Arroub, 9,180
1950, Askar, 31,894
1950, Balata, 41,681
1950, Beit Jibrin ('Azza), 1,828
1950, Camp No.1 (Ein Beit al-Ma'), 6,221
1949, Deir Ammar, 2,189
1949, Dheisheh, 10,923
1948, Ein as-Sultan, 1,888
1949, Far'a, 11,836
1949, Fawwar, 7,072
1949, Jalazone, 9,284
1953, Jenin, 35,050
1949, Kalandia, 9,188
1952, Nur Shams, 8,179
1965, Shu'fat, 9,567
1950, Tulkarm, 17,259

It is not Israel that controls these camps but their own fellow muslims. The camps could of been ended long ago but UN and the Arabs persist in making these people eternal refugees as a political gambit.

In the wake of the War of Independence in 1948, when Israel was invaded by the armies of five of its Arab neighboring countries, 860,000 Jewish refugees fled from Arab countries to Israel, and, at about the same time, about 70% of the Arab population of Mandatory Palestine fled to Arab states from the portion of Palestine that is now Israel. The Arab exodus was almost entirely because of the actions of Arab leaders and not because of anything the Israeli Jews did. Estimates of the total number who left range from 540,000 to 720,000. Not all of those who fled their homes departed Mandatory Palestine itself. By some estimates, 45% of them simply crossed into the eastern sector of the country occupied by Jordan’s Arab Legion. Around 5% crossed the Jordan River and entered the Hashemite Kingdom itself. About 30%, who originally had encamped in the south, fled toward the Gaza area. Nearly 15% sought refuge in Lebanon, another 5% in Syria, with smaller groups traveling on to Iraq and Egypt — and later to the Persian Gulf sheikhdoms.

This population exchange mirrored far larger population movements following the end of World War II, which involved millions of Hindus and Muslims in India and Pakistan, as well as Poles, Germans and many other nationalities in Central and East Europe. These population exchanges were resolved through the integration of all refugees into the host states. While Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees, the Arab states refused to allow such resettlement and integration of their Palestinian brethren, preferring instead to exploit the Palestinian refugees to serve their own political agendas. Since there has been no integration of the refugees with the populations of the countries to which they fled, the current “refugees” are the children and mostly grandchildren of those who left Israel during the 1948 War of Independence.

In 1949, Israel offered to admit 100,000 Arab refugees, with the understanding that their repatriation would be linked to meaningful peace negotiations. Although 35,000 Arabs eventually returned under a family reunification plan, further implementation of the offer was suspended in the 1950′s, after it became clear that the Arab states steadfastly refused to consider Israel’s peace overtures, preferring instead to maintain a state of war with and economic boycott against Israel. In contrast, as a gesture of goodwill, Israel unilaterally released the frozen bank accounts and safe deposits of Arab refugees.

Furthermore the Arab leaders ADMIT their guilt in this matter:

In 1973, Khaled al-’Azm, who served as Prime Minister of Syria in 1948 and 1949, published his memoirs in Beirut. He includes the following:
•We have brought destruction upon a million Arab refugees, by calling upon them and pleading with them to leave their lands, their homes, their work and their business, and we have caused them to be barren and unemployed though each one of them had been working and qualified in a trade from which he could make a living. In addition, we accustomed them to begging for hand-outs and to suffice with what little the UN organisation would allocate them.

Following the war, the Arab countries consistently refused to take steps necessary to improve the lives of the Palestinian refugees. In early 1950, the UN General Assembly established the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, with a budget of $54 million. UNRWA was charged with the task of employing the Palestinians on projects in the Arab states in which they resided. It was an explicit expectation of the program that within 18 months most of these refugees would be as self-supporting as their Arab neighbors, and relief handouts could be ended. However, when UNRWA officials initiated talks with the Arab governments, they encountered an uncompromising refusal to cooperate with any plan designed for economic integration.

Arab leaders argued that Paragraph Eleven of General Assembly Resolution 194 of December 1948 guaranteed the refugees the right to return to their homes, and that they could not participate in any scheme that might compromise such a right. In fact, the Arab states themselves had voted unanimously against the resolution, since it envisaged peace negotiations with Israel. The refugee issue accordingly served as a useful obstacle to future discussions and as an effective lien on the world’s conscience. By the end of 1950, as a result, no more than 10,000 of the refugees were employed.

Throughout the 1950′s, UNRWA put forward additional plans to resettle and rehabilitate the Palestinian refugees. Like the earlier plan, these too were rejected by the Arab countries, individually and through the Arab League. By 1959, UNRWA was obliged to report that its rehabilitation fund, created in 1950 to provide homes and jobs for Palestinian refugees outside the camps, had been boycotted by the Arabs. The fund had set a goal of $250 million, but after three years only $7 million had been spent, and a further $28 million lay unused in the fund. Thereafter, a small part of the money was used on agricultural development; the rest of the money was used to augment UNRWA’s general reserves.

Some of the Palestinians were formulating their own solution by then. In 1952, UNRWA observed that a good number of the Arab refugees had recently found homes and livelihoods in neighboring countries, in Iraq and the Persian Gulf states. At least 280,000 refugees had established themselves in Jordan and, by their own efforts, had become an integral part of that country’s economy. For others, however, the situation was different.

In January 1951, the “Committee of Palestine Refugees” in Lebanon wrote the Arab League political committee, observing that a return to their homes was less than imminent for most of the Palestinians. Until a political solution could be found they could hardly be left to rot in Arab countries without decent food, shelter or means of providing a livelihood. The letter suggested that the Arab states should at least provide those refugees willing to settle outside Palestine with the opportunity to do so. Yet the single affirmative response to this appeal was King Abdullah’s decision to confer Jordanian citizenship on the 200,000-odd refugees of the West Bank. Of these, 100,000 found employment; the rest continued to live in camps on UNRWA’s dole.

As a result of this situation, UNRWA relief aid became a fixture in the lives of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. The “advantages” of refugee status were not unsubstantial. The refugees had access to health services. The incidence of sickness and death accordingly was lower among them than among the surrounding Arab populations. Some 45% of their children of school age received free education. While their rations were meager, they did not suffer from malnutrition. By the end of 1956, only 39% of registered refugees actually lived in UNRWA camps; yet nearly all of them drew UN rations. Israel, therefore, cannot be held solely responsible for the socio-economic problems of the Gaza refugees, which were created by deliberate Arab neglect before 1967.

In 1959, UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjold personally investigated the possibility of a comprehensive resettlement scheme in the Middle East. Such a scheme would, like the earlier recommendations of the UN Palestine Conciliation Commission, have been based on the general principle of resettling Arab refugees in Arab countries; as a result, it encountered Arab opposition and was dropped.

Since UNRWA’s inception, Arab countries have made totally inadequate contributions to its funding. UNRWA’s annual budget, and deficit
s, have been covered almost entirely by Western countries; Arab states have made only token contributions, amounting to about 5% of the total budget. As a major contributor to international relief funds and the United Nations, the UnitedStates has made up for a large share of Arab neglect of their own people.

Over the years, Arab governments have placed a higher priority on the destruction of Israel than on the welfare of the Palestinian refugees. They perceived it as their interest to keep the bitterness and anger of the Palestinian refugees alive. For decades, in fact, Arab leaders used the Palestinians’ misfortune to promote their efforts to undermine Israel, linking a return of refugees to Israel’s destruction. In an interview to the Cairo journal “Al-Masri” on 11 October 1949, Egyptian Foreign Minister Muhammad Salah A-Din said:
•In demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees, the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves; or, to put it quite clearly — the intention is the termination of Israel.

This motif was repeated in later years, with President Nasser of Egypt saying, in a 1965 speech, that:
•Our aim is to restore the national rights of the Palestinian people, namely to destroy Israel.

So there. You have it in their own words. They want the refugee problem to remain. They want to destroy Israel. And Israel has a right to exist. I suggest you research this issue rather than simply blather nonsense and rubbish.

And yes, you have that right, I know next to nothing about the Knesset

So out of your vast pool of ignorance you feel you must spout foolish accusations based on your fevered fantasies?

the fact that muslim parties are in HEAVY mandate pressure

Really? What is Mandate Pressure? It's a big phrase you invented? Care to explain what this concept means?

where that pressure comes from I don't know

Perhaps you speak of the pressure of flatulence? We do know where that comes from.

a LARGE group of people DOESN'T seem to be thoroughly heard

Ah yes. You are quite right at long last. A large group of devout Jews who are peaceful farmers, doctors, researchers, authors, technicians and scholars don't seem to ever be heard. Their rights are abused. Their homes are destroyed. Their leaders are "Accidently shot" by IDF, PA and killed by rock throwing youth. Their children are dismembered with the blood coating floors and walls. Their wives are raped and have the throats slit in the middle of the night. Their children are taken from the homes late at night and smashed on the rocks. And their homes are bulldozed by IDF and Police when Barak finds it politically expediant. And no, I don't need an explanation. It is simple hatred. Nothing more. The hatred of evil people for the innocent. The hatred of the unjust for the just. The hatred of the ungodly toward the Righteous.

will you care to explain that to me, please ?

And now you have all the explanation you will ever get.

[johnleeknoefler]

If anyone ever gets the silly idea that Arabs care about their own more than hating Jews and Israel think again:

The refugee issue remains unsolved. Arab governments have made no attempt to assist their own people to resettle or integrate with their host countries, in marked contrast to the outcome for the Jewish refugees in Israel or, indeed, refugees in every other world trouble spot. Only the Palestinians remain refugees because only the Palestinians have been enslaved to the Arab political agenda against Israel. This exploitation of the PalestinianArab refugees by huge and wealthy Arab countries happened in the same time period as tiny Israel absorbed millions of Jewish immigrants who fled persecution in Arab countries and from Nazi or Soviet Europe.

By 2002, many of the refugee camps were still in operation and the inhabitants were still being politically manipulated by radical Palestinian Arabs. During Israel’s Operation Defensive Shield the camps were entered by the Israeli military and were found to be centers of terrorist activity with bomb factories, illegal arms caches, and schools for terrorist fighters.

[johnleeknoefler]

Jewish Refugee Camp
Famagusta, Cyprus

Jewish refugees leave British Detention Camp, Caraolas near Famagusta for Palestine.

L.S. Exterior of barbed wire surrounding encampment pan across the camp. L.S. Interior of camp showing tented dwellings. M.S. Hand releasing padlock on chain at camp gate. M.S. crowds surging towards gate. C.U. Type behind padlocked gate. (2 shots). M.S. Women's P.T. (exercise) class (2 shots). M.S. Low angle shot of star of David flag flying over encampment. L.S. Instructor blowing whistle. C.U. Instructor blowing whistle. M.S. woman being instructed on how to cross a ravine by a single rope. L.S. Crowd outside compound. L.S. crowds outside compound. M.S. Ditto showing British guard. (2 shots). L.S. Inmates behind two rows of barbed wire. M.S. Ditto. L.S. Elevated shot of men walking round the camp. M.S. Ditto. (2 shots). S.C.U. Ditto. (2 shots). S.C.U. Ditto. L.S. Rear view of body of men outside camp. M.S. Men behind barbed wire. M.S. cheering Jewish crowd after declaration of independence. M.S. Woman learning how to catwalk along rope. C.U. Ditto. M.S. tented home for family of 8 (2 shots) S.C.U. Jewish woman doing her washing. M.S. Girls P.T. group. M.S. New Arrivals climbing down from army lorry. S.C.U. Ditto C.U. Young baby. M.S. Families going up gangplank boarding ship to sail for Palestine. S.C.U. Front view ditto. Ditto with Nurse. M.S. Elevated shot families on quayside pan to climbing gangplank. C.U. Type climbing up a gangplank. M.S. Types climbing up gangplank. C.U. Bearded Jew. Supervising the embarkation. L.S. Elevated families on quayside. M.S. Family moving up gangplank. M.S. Elevated families on deck of ship. S.C.U. Family on deck of ship looking out to sea. L.S. Dockside scene. M.S. Stern of vessel taking refugees to Palestine. C.U. Types going up gangplank. Faces of men, women and children (5 shots). M.S. Bottom of gangplank. M.S. Types going up gangplank L.S. truck full of refugees winding through hills of eastern Cyprus. M.S. Ditto. C.U. Army lorry above ditto. L.S. ship leaving for Palestine. C.U. Ships whistle blowing. L.S. dockside scene taken from departing ship. M.S. ditto. Refugees in foreground. M.S. Deck of ship at sea. S.C.U. Jewish family lying on deck of ship. M.S. Ditto. Refugees in foreground. M.S. Deck of ship at sea. S.C.U. Jewish family lying on deck of ship. C.U. feeding child of the above. L.S. ship at sea. Cyprus on the Horizon. (2 shots). C.U. type sitting on deck. M.S. Washing hanging out on ship deck. C.U. man holding baby, sitting on deck. C.U. Man looking out to sea. C.U. Man and woman looking out to sea. C.U. man and woman ditto. (2 shots) M.S. types looking to sea. Cyprus in horizon. S.C.U. two types looking to sea, Cyprus on horizon. C.U. woman's face. C.U. mans face. C.U. woman's face.

Note healthy condition of all pictured
<h2>JEWS LEAVE BRITISH DETENTION CAMP FOR PALESTINE aka JEWISH REFUGEES IN DETENTION CAMP</h2><iframe src="http://www.britishpathe.com/embed.php?archive=58318" name="pathe_flash_embed" width="352" height="264" scrolling="no" frameborder="1"><p>Your browser does not support iframes.</p></iframe>