[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by Blewvane ↗

Years ago certain western nations, and organisations, agreed to give aid to african nations that vowed to fight poaching. Hundreds of millions of dollars were dished out, some of which was supposed to go to supporting park rangers, and poaching slowed down for a few years. Once the money was all gone, stolen by each nations government, the poachers came back in force.
To stop poaching, the whole world needs to ban new ivory products. It is almost pointless for certain nations to impose a ban while others continue the trade but this is what has happened.

Imagine this, cows are eaten all over the world. Slaughtered on a daily basis. And yet we have more cows than ever before.

Recently an African government burned tons of elephant tusks as a lesson to poachers. Millions of dollars of ivory was destroyed. Driving up the cost even further. Making an item rare doesn't make it less desireable.
Why not privatize large tracts of land with the ownership of elephants being allowed and supervised. Make ivory a business. Let corporations manage and protect the the National parks and in return make harvesting of meat and tusks highly regulated and taxed as a source of national revenue. Make sale of elephants profitable. Then and only then will elephants become less endangered.

[Sharon]

The ivory/fur/bone/body part trade is revolting. No need for that sickness in this day and age. Eating dried tiger cocks to cure mouth ulcers, I mean REALLY! (not true, but along those lines!)

[Sharon]

Originally Posted by johnleeknoefler ↗

Since pet cats kill millions of rare birds every year lets make the owning of cats punishable by death.

I assume you're joking

They do it in their basic instinct. To hunt, stalk, kill. They do not know reason and choice like we do. Animals are no way aware of each other's status as a species.

Animals are the ones God gave us stewardship over, not to maim and murder without reason. We are permitted to use them as food and - in cases of tribal people, innuits, etc - clothing and tools.

[Sharon]

Originally Posted by johnleeknoefler ↗

Imagine this, cows are eaten all over the world. Slaughtered on a daily basis. And yet we have more cows than ever before.

Recently an African government burned tons of elephant tusks as a lesson to poachers. Millions of dollars of ivory was destroyed. Driving up the cost even further. Making an item rare doesn't make it less desireable.
Why not privatize large tracts of land with the ownership of elephants being allowed and supervised. Make ivory a business. Let corporations manage and protect the the National parks and in return make harvesting of meat and tusks highly regulated and taxed as a source of national revenue. Make sale of elephants profitable. Then and only then will elephants become less endangered.

Point taken actually. It's funny what we consider acceptable to utilise in our society for food and what isn't. Leather is a by-product used for shoes, belts, bags, etc. Ivory and hide would be a by-product for...?things...if elephants were bred and raised like regular livestock.

I don't think elephants used as livestock is ethical though yet you know what, I cannot say why convincingly as we people eat many types of animal

[TwistedPrincess]

Originally Posted by johnleeknoefler ↗

Since it's your idea, then we can start with you!.

take a number, my job and my cigarettes are definitely ahead of you. may be others.

so you want to start with me... killing cats isn't enough for you? need to move on to some thing more challenging? they say they start with animals...

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by TwistedPrincess ↗

take a number, my job and my cigarettes are definitely ahead of you. may be others.

so you want to start with me... killing cats isn't enough for you? need to move on to some thing more challenging? they say they start with animals...

It was your idea... I simply suggest we start with you since you are so fond of the idea.

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by Sharon. ↗

Point taken actually. It's funny what we consider acceptable to utilise in our society for food and what isn't. Leather is a by-product used for shoes, belts, bags, etc. Ivory and hide would be a by-product for...?things...if elephants were bred and raised like regular livestock.

I don't think elephants used as livestock is ethical though yet you know what, I cannot say why convincingly as we people eat many types of animal

I also agree with you. I think Elephants are a very noble sensitive creature, worthy of our admiration and protection. And in reality it would be painful to reduce such a creature to merely a product to be consumed.

Still, if humans had a more tangible reason to protect elephants they might be around longer. Private ownership might be useful. Governments seem to screw up anything they are involved with, in direct proportion to the extent of that involvement.

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by Sharon. ↗

The ivory/fur/bone/body part trade is revolting. No need for that sickness in this day and age. Eating dried tiger cocks to cure mouth ulcers, I mean REALLY! (not true, but along those lines!)

Wouldn't fresh tiger.... ah never mind.

[johnleeknoefler]

Originally Posted by Sharon. ↗

Point taken actually. It's funny what we consider acceptable to utilise in our society for food and what isn't. Leather is a by-product used for shoes, belts, bags, etc. Ivory and hide would be a by-product for...?things...if elephants were bred and raised like regular livestock.

I don't think elephants used as livestock is ethical though yet you know what, I cannot say why convincingly as we people eat many types of animal

Actually in my best of all possible worlds I would rather see very limited killing or culling of herds. It is true that Elephants do overpopulate and denude an area of it's natural flora if the population is unchecked. So if an animal cannot be relocated to an area that needs elephants or is a rogue Elephant that poses a danger to humans or other wildlife and can't be dealt with then culling might be needed. But why not use it's body then for funding?
And would a property owner or private for profit management group be more happy to keep the animals alive and protect them and then harvest the ivory after the animal dies of natural causes?
It is written in Torah that a wise man regards the life of the beast. In other words the animals under our care are to be preserved and protected. Not just for our basic profit but also for their own sakes.
It is written that it is evil to kill a mother goat and the kid. If the mother goat is killed for food then the kid must be allowed to mature. If the kid is killed for food then the mother goat must be allowed to go and reproduce again. And it is that a kid must not be cooked with it's mother's milk because it is a crime against nature to use that which was meant to provide life in such a way for the animal's death. And there are many laws concerning restrictions on ruthless killing.
Here in USA our cattle industry is just full of cruelty and disregard for not only the health of the animals but also for the safety of those who will eat the meat. Such disregard is both cruel and a moral evil.
Having said all that I think it's also wrong to turn a non native cat loose on wild populations of native rare birds and other protected species. Many people who claim to be animal lovers have stood by and taken video of their pet cat killing wild animals and they think nothing of it. They even post it to Youtube with no shame. Like it's wrong to post a video of someone killing a chicken but ok to show your cat killing a native songbird. Cat's are under the control of humans. So therefore humans are the guilty party when wild species are destroyed by cats. What wild animals in their native habitat do for survival is a much different matter than turning loose a well fed tame cat on them to enjoy them for his own sport. Tame well fed cats sometimes go on to become quite expert killing machines. I don't mind so much though when they are going after the gophers.... Always seem to be plenty of those little buggers.
And ya.. I don't actually think we should kill cat owners. But laws should be more strictly enforced against owners letting their cats prey on native species. We have lots of great songbirds here in USA but they are being killed by the millions due to cat predation.

[Steve]

Just shoot the fucking poachers problem solved.