[GG57]

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[Kanda444]

Originally Posted by GG57 ↗

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that's now how i want to die... handcuff my hands behind my back, then make a gun appear from thin air and shoot myself in the chest with it.

a foolproof plan.

[adhartz]

Any guesses what the fate of any dash cam or body cam footage will be?

I'm going to predict that it will be lost in the system somewhere.

[Sharon]

Unusual case, horrible for his family to come to terms with.

[30564U]

As many of you here know, I have a fairly extensive background in investigating police use of force incidents and still testify in court cases as an expert witness. After looking at the facts of the case, both here and through other sources, it's an interesting case to be sure. Having said that, it's absolutely plausible that the two Officers completely missed a small concealed firearm after the two separate field searches. Officers miss weapons and evidence all the time...Hell, even I've missed fairly big stuff over the years. Don't forget we're talking a very small semi-auto firearm (say around 2 or 3 inches by 2 or 3 inches around and less than a half inch thick) in .25 caliber. Just because the suspect was handcuffed behind his back is no reason to doubt that he fully capable of shooting himself in the back or in a limited context in his chest. Handcuffed suspects are still potentially dangerous and, depending on their motivations, quite capable of injuring officers or escaping custody. I've seen first hand handcuffed individuals go through a restraint cage and actually drive away and steal a patrol car. It isn't that unusual for handcuffed folks to do all sorts of fun and intesting things that you wouldn't believe they're capable of doing. The odd thing here is that the local coppers failed to perform a Gunshot Residue Test on the suspect's hands...that simple and cheap test would have quashed most, if not all doubts, about this guy shooting himself. Retarded investigative techniques and policies do not a murder make. The other issue is that the medical examiner concluded (based on what I don't know) that the entrance wound was in the Suspect's chest and the exit wound was on or near the suspect's back. Usually you'll find fairly dense powder stippling or tattooing on an entrance wound fired at such a close range...but not always. Trust me, there are no hard and fast rules in dealing with homicides and use of force incidents. There are as many variations as their are people. Medical examiner's autopsy results are often not in complete agreement with police or detective reports...again inaccuracies and inconsistentcies do not a murder make. Medical examiner's are not automatically correct and police officers are not automatically correct...experts often disagree or have different opinions and different conclusions. This case is interesting, but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility of happening. I tend to go with the logical, less complicated explanation. Based on the evidence (and it isn't perfect evidence by a long shot) I'd say the suspect probably shot himself with a small concealable handgun that officers missed during two searches. I am a strong believer in Occam's Razor where, when you have two competing theories that make the same predictions, the simpler one is the better. We'll have to wait for more evidence to make a final determination.

[nat906]

lol yeah rite.:2gunsfi ring_v1:

[nat906]

someone better rush down to the stiff room and place a gun in that boys hand and pull the trigger im thinking.

[nat906]

its life jim but not as we know it.

[OhJstFkOffAlrdy]

Originally Posted by 30564U ↗

As many of you here know, I have a fairly extensive background in investigating police use of force incidents...

...but next to no background in formatting paragraphs.

But seriously, couldn't it be possible that A.) The entrance and exit wounds of such a small-caliber round would be difficult for even a trained professional to distinguish; and B.) the dude was trying to ditch the weapon in the back seat of the patrol car and accidentally shot himself?

[30564U]

Originally Posted by Metal Mike ↗

...but next to no background in formatting paragraphs.

But seriously, couldn't it be possible that A.) The entrance and exit wounds of such a small-caliber round would be difficult for even a trained professional to distinguish; and B.) the dude was trying to ditch the weapon in the back seat of the patrol car and accidentally shot himself?

Sorry for the run on paragraph. Regarding the small caliber entrance/exit wound issue. Absolutely...the caliber, speed of the bullet, and more specifically the powder load, angle, distance of the muzzle, and type of bullet would all play a factor in confusing the entrance/exit wound. Coroners often cannot determine entrance/exit wounds in even cut and dry cases. It would also depend on the type of clothing and the layers of clothing the suspect was wearing.

Regarding how the suspect shot himself...I suspect that he either committed suicide outright, he was trying to hide the firearm and accidentally shot himself, or he was retrieving the firearm to kill one of the officers and accidentally shot himself. What interests me is that the gunshot would have in no way been an immediate "kill shot". What did the suspect say to the officers, if anything, prior to loosing consciousness or dying...did he make any explanation? Why the local bumpkin police investigator didn't do a GSRT is beyond me...that would have been standard operating procedure pretty much everywhere in the US. Were the paramedics called and did they render aid or transport to the hospital? Or was the suspect DRT (dead right there)? Don't get me wrong a .25 caliber can be as deadly as a 12 gauge shotgun...but most often shooting victims tend to linger more with a small caliber wound unless he hit his heart dead center.