[Flaka]

It ALMOST sounds to me like i could get into a petty argument with a person, shoot and kill them, and say it was self defense. Bit scary.

[bakuto50]

Originally Posted by Flaka ↗

It ALMOST sounds to me like i could get into a petty argument with a person, shoot and kill them, and say it was self defense. Bit scary.

I never thought about it like that, you make a good point Flaka! A means to murder, not defend yourself, with a potential loop hole to get away with it in court.

[Kusanagi]

Originally Posted by MattyD ↗

Nah guns will never be part of the lives of ordinary citizens here in the UK. They have a completely different philosophy here which derives, in part, from the development of its social class structure over the years.

The use of guns have always been a relatively elitist activity here (for the gentry and aristocracy), and to be honest I'm glad that there are no guns here.

Also I think that cops shouldn't be given the right to bear arms - just like Judge Dredd you're giving them the power to decide who should live or die. They are human just like anyone else, and thus shouldn't have the power to make that decision. As long as the police do not carry guns, then people and civilians are less likely to; there is no need to. This is the philosophy of most Brits I would imagine.

I mean just look at the stats. The US has 4 times the murder rate of the UK (inclusive of all homicides, not just those relating to guns).

Thing is people can use guns in a petty dispute. Take that gun out of the equation and what would have been an unintentional killer (he saw red and pulled the trigger), now isn't a killer. Yeah you could turn around and say they could grab a knife or any other weapon, but you stand a much better chance of survival than against someone with a gun.

Now looking at those stats again it's not really about guns at all because if here in the UK they don't have guns, many seem to assume then that they instead use other means to commit murder. But that obviously isn't the case.

The gun problem America has relates to its culture. If Sweden and Switzerland are just as willing to arm their citizens as the US (Sweden would be more like Switzerland in my view if not for the EU restrictions), why aren't their overall homicide rates anywhere near as high as the US?

Both sides of the equation obviously work. Sweden and Switzerland are examples where armed civilians isn't a problem. Britain, the Netherlands and Japan are the biggest opponents to ordinary folk bearing arms in my view and their crimes rates are also very low. China also to an extent though I don't know about their regulations.

guess what? the US has a population that is 5 times more than the UK. so i guess if you are into statistics then the UK has more firearm related crimes per person

would you rather to killed with a shot from a gun or several bone crushing whacks from a crowbar?

[flangemanager]

Originally Posted by Kusanagi ↗

guess what? the US has a population that is 5 times more than the UK. so i guess if you are into statistics then the UK has more firearm related crimes per person

would you rather to killed with a shot from a gun or several bone crushing whacks from a crowbar?

Gun crime statistics calculated *per capita* indicate that the US has a higher rate of firearm related crime.
I have no problem with gun ownership. In fact, I own one myself.
However, if the ownership laws in the UK were relaxed to the degree of some US states, then we could potentially see chavs with guns...
If you live in the UK and know what I mean by "chavs", and have ever walked past a bus shelter filled with half a dozen of them, all of whom are smashed on cheap cider, then you know why throwing a handgun into the equation is a recipe for disaster.
Lastly. I'd much rather my chances out-running a crowbar wielding maniac than a bullet...

[mrh2008]

Originally Posted by Flaka ↗

It ALMOST sounds to me like i could get into a petty argument with a person, shoot and kill them, and say it was self defense. Bit scary.

Not even close. Arizona's gun laws don't protect criminal actions, only legitimate self defence situations.