Amanda Knox New Trial

[icheerthebull]

I live in the uk and here the victim does get a lot of attention. Again I'm not saying she is innocent but I do feel the evidence is shoddy and the police are to blame.

Reading some of the reports a lot of Americans seem to think she will just stay in the US. Well I have news for them, it may take a while but the states WILL extradite her 100% guaranteed. Like gatagato said the US demand more extraditions then any other nation and they usually get it. They cannot risk not extraditing her as they would have to kiss goodbye not just to future extraditions from Italy but future extradition from any country within the EU.

Unfortunately the judicial systems of most nations are not there to bring justice, they are there to provide the illusion of justice

[Megamel29]

Originally Posted by icheerthebull

Reading some of the reports a lot of Americans seem to think she will just stay in the US. Well I have news for them, it may take a while but the states WILL extradite her 100% guaranteed.

Yup. Basically she should start heading to France or something if she doesn't want to go to prison.

[gatagato]

Originally Posted by Megamel29

gatagato, as far as I know there is no concrete evidence pointing to Knox. Let me know if there is. The police did a horrible job protecting the crime scene. As for Knox pointing the finger at someone else, how long was she interrogated for at that point? Did she have legal counsel?

I definitely feel bad for Meredith and her family. It's awful enough to have a loved one murdered but to have so many questions would be maddening.

We agree on the fact that the police did a horrible job protecting the crime scene, but what nails Amanda is basically UNRELATED to what got messed up.

Megamel, you ask

as far as I know there is no concrete evidence pointing to Knox. Let me know if there is.

A court in Italy has 90 days of time to produce the motivation of the sentence. All we can do is to wait and see, it will be a long paper for sure: all i can tell you right now is that you cannot be sentenced to 28 years in Italy without proofs, that Rudi Guede, 22, was sentenced in a fast-track trial in October 2008 (definitive sentence), that she was THERE while the murder was carried out and that the explanation she provided to investigators turned out to be LIES.
You have a very low opinion on italian Judicial System, i understand the why and i respect your opinion, and i agree on some points but DONT forget that in 449 BC we already had the Roman law, and that all legal systems (worldwide) have been influenced by (if not based on) it, we're not a bunch of corrupted people who want to see that bitch in prison for the sake of it.

As for Knox pointing the finger at someone else, how long was she interrogated for at that point? Did she have legal counsel?

Did you ever heard about Guantanamo?
1. Sexual Assault/Humiliation
2. Sleep Deprivation
3. Sensory Deprivation
4. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
5. Mock Executions
6. Forced Medication
7. Use of Dogs to Scare Detainees
8. Temperature Extremes
9. Sensory Bombardment (Noise)
10. Watching Others Being Tortured
11. Psychological Techniques

Are you trying to convince ME that US are legitimate to do whatever they want in order to get a confession (that often caused bombings killing thousands of civilians) BUT once some italian police officer tries to corner some US suspect must enter the nitty gritty? And why, only because she's from the USA?
Just askin'

[icheerthebull]

The guardian raised a good point today with regard to the media interest in this case, that is a beautiful upper middle class girl murdered in picturess Italy by a beautiful upper middle class girl. If Amanda Knox was a working class black girl from Brooklyn how much support/sympathy would she get?

[bigjoe]

Knox is guilty. She murdered another woman and deserves prison, if not death.

But she is cute and I wouldn't mind being her prison guard. She'll get extra "protein" in her meals. Daily.

[K9Grip]

Originally Posted by icheerthebull

I live in the uk and here the victim does get a lot of attention. Again I'm not saying she is innocent but I do feel the evidence is shoddy and the police are to blame.

Reading some of the reports a lot of Americans seem to think she will just stay in the US. Well I have news for them, it may take a while but the states WILL extradite her 100% guaranteed. Like gatagato said the US demand more extraditions then any other nation and they usually get it. They cannot risk not extraditing her as they would have to kiss goodbye not just to future extraditions from Italy but future extradition from any country within the EU.

Unfortunately the judicial systems of most nations are not there to bring justice, they are there to provide the illusion of justice

I don't agree with you on the "future extradition from any country within the EU." We all know the EU is - how do I put this, struggling with other larger issues right now. I don't think this case is even a blimp on their radar. They really do have more pressing issues to deal with.

[K9Grip]

Originally Posted by gatagato

We agree on the fact that the police did a horrible job protecting the crime scene, but what nails Amanda is basically UNRELATED to what got messed up.

Megamel, you ask
A court in Italy has 90 days of time to produce the motivation of the sentence. All we can do is to wait and see, it will be a long paper for sure: all i can tell you right now is that you cannot be sentenced to 28 years in Italy without proofs, that Rudi Guede, 22, was sentenced in a fast-track trial in October 2008 (definitive sentence), that she was THERE while the murder was carried out and that the explanation she provided to investigators turned out to be LIES.
You have a very low opinion on italian Judicial System, i understand the why and i respect your opinion, and i agree on some points but DONT forget that in 449 BC we already had the Roman law, and that all legal systems (worldwide) have been influenced by (if not based on) it, we're not a bunch of corrupted people who want to see that bitch in prison for the sake of it.



Did you ever heard about Guantanamo?
1. Sexual Assault/Humiliation
2. Sleep Deprivation
3. Sensory Deprivation
4. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
5. Mock Executions
6. Forced Medication
7. Use of Dogs to Scare Detainees
8. Temperature Extremes
9. Sensory Bombardment (Noise)
10. Watching Others Being Tortured
11. Psychological Techniques

Are you trying to convince ME that US are legitimate to do whatever they want in order to get a confession (that often caused bombings killing thousands of civilians) BUT once some italian police officer tries to corner some US suspect must enter the nitty gritty? And why, only because she's from the USA?
Just askin'

I think it's pretty safe to say that Mignini and the flying squad had Guede by the balls. In his first interrogation, Amanda and Raffaele weren't there. But, in subsequent interrogations they were in the room and he was telling police what they did step by step, almost like he was reading from a script.
We will never know the truth from him because once he is released from prison, if he opens his mouth, they could charge him with a whole new set of violations. (His story has changed multiple times, whatever side you are on in this case - you can choose which one fits your preference.)

The only way we might ever learn the truth is when Rudy Guede is on his death bed and not fearful of another day in prison.

[K9Grip]

Did you ever heard about Guantanamo?
1. Sexual Assault/Humiliation
2. Sleep Deprivation
3. Sensory Deprivation
4. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
5. Mock Executions
6. Forced Medication
7. Use of Dogs to Scare Detainees
8. Temperature Extremes
9. Sensory Bombardment (Noise)
10. Watching Others Being Tortured
11. Psychological Techniques

Are you trying to convince ME that US are legitimate to do whatever they want in order to get a confession (that often caused bombings killing thousands of civilians) BUT once some italian police officer tries to corner some US suspect must enter the nitty gritty? And why, only because she's from the USA?
Just askin'[/QUOTE]


Sorry Gata, no country is perfect and I understand your anger about people calling the Italian justice system shitty. But, as an American - we've been getting it for years. We can't do anything right, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

England, America, Canada, Germany, Italy, France, Belgium, China, Japan, Slovenia, Croatia and so on - I could go on for days about the wrong doings of every nation across the world. That's why I wrote in my first post that it irritates me that people have turned this into a war between three nations.

[gatagato]

K9Grip, thanks for your posts, and despite they express disagreement with me i admit that i liked them, and appreciated their fairness: and i agree with more parts of them than you think, believe me.
I've MUCH respect for your opinion.

Regarding the people turning this into a war between England, USA, Italy, i personally, as italian, feel in debt towards the relatives of the victim, but also towards english people in general: all they asked for was the truth and what they got were 180,000 conflicting truths. And still no justice.
This makes me feel very bad, sometimes it is humiliating, it's a very hard-to-explain feeling, and not only due to the language barrier (as my english sucks as all DR members know): it would be (it IS) difficult to explain even in italian. When a Country loses credibility, its citizens, unavoidably, will face some repercussions: and of course this happened also to me, since i have relationships with british citizens on daily basis expecially for work, they're often so fair that they avoid to talk about this very case, but i know that often they RIGHTFULLY think that perhaps we (as Country) don't deserve their trust.

In order to explain to you what i think about how the evidences were handled, i will quote myself from another thread:

These RIS (italian version of CSI) are really weird: do you remember Midas, the dude well known in Greek mythology for his ability to turn everything he touched into gold? Well, they work almost the same way: they have the ability to turn everything they touch into shit.

That is, i think i'm fully aware of the situation, i'm not blind. But paradoxically, all the mess played in favour of both Amanda and Raffaele: had the RIS done a good work, likely now we were talking about other stuff as the case would have been closed, dead and buried.

A couple of days ago RaiNews24 aired a documentary on the media coverage for this case: showing comparisons between how the very same fact was told in three different ways in Italy, in the UK and in the US (if an english version will be released, i'll share it, i promise): the first thing that you'd notice is that in Italy the news are released piece by piece, as if they were unrelated each to the other; in Britain they always try to put the single news in its right context (often using a timeline) and explain CLEARLY what are facts, what are theories and what are opinions. In the US, depending on the opinion of the journalist, all these things may come mixed together, and often only the 33% is told: the percentage of really unbiased articles was extremely low: often, the whole articles are based exclusively on their lawyier statements, but such statements are told as facts. Not talking about one or two articles, talking about hundreds if not thousands ones.
Can i blame all the US citizens who believe that she's 100% innocent and that italian judges are evil cunts who want to ruin her life for the sake of?
No, i cannot, of course.
I would pose you a question: the motivation of the 1st degree sentence is 427 pages long: how many of those pages have been translated into english and published by some newspaper in the U.S.?

Media are like a painter, they'll hardly say just the truth, they'll depict the truth using the shapes & colors that they (for some reason) like, or believe to be most appropriate (for their cause, NOT for yours, mere mortal/reader).

FACTS matter.
Now, why has the Court of Cassation overturned the 2nd degree sentence (acquittal)?
Because according to italian laws, in order to overturn the 1st degree sentence, the judges of corte d'appello (2nd degree) should have produced another motivation of sentence in which to explain what in those 427 pages was wrong, and the why.
But since they've failed to do that, the whole trial was invalidated, and the case was sent back to the court of appeal.
Please, pay attention to this detail:
many refer to the fact that "U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge"
but guess what? in Italy is the same :)
We can't talk about two trials indeed: we can talk about ONE trial, and this is why:
the structure of the Italian judiciary is divided into three tiers (1s degree, Appello (appeal, 2nd degree) and Corte di Cassazione (3rd degree the las and the highest).
Since the second degree had not the pre-requisites to be considered valid, it has been nullified, so technically it never existed.
It's safe to say that the mess at the second degree WAS in favour of A.K., since she was acquitted: wasn't it?

Now we reached this point: the court has 90 days of time to produce the motivation of the sentence: before that moment, any judgement on this sentence has no ground.

Just to be clear: if after reading the motivation of the sentence i'll think that what i read is NOT convincing, then (i swear) i'll be the first to say that she has been wrongfully convicted.


Now regarding what i've said to Megamel29 (who actually IS one of my favourite posters here in the news section ):

i was referring to QUOTED parts of one of your posts.
A video showing ONE asshole wearing the same gloves while collecting different evidences should NOT put in discussion an entire judical system, because THAT is a COP doing his work, doing it the worst way possible BUT judges are something else and have nothing to do with it.

For each ONE magistrate that has been convicted of corruption in italy, we have lost FIVE magistrates, killed by Mafia only because they were trying to free my country from that cancer.
Am i free to be proud of a magistrate that stated "My life is mapped out. It is my destiny to take a bullet by the Mafia someday. The only thing I don’t know is when.” and kept on doing his work until a bomb made with 400 kg. if Trinitrotoluene killed him along with his wife and three policemen who were there to escort them, two weeks later?
Well, this is why i reacted this way. Maybe i was wrong but that's the reason.

Italian judical system has nothing to do with this team of assholes who earn 4,500€ ( 7 times more the average italian) montly to do basically nothing in the best case, or to jeopardize a whole set of evidences and fuck up a whole trial in the worse. Those are cops, but magistrates are another thing: if you put them alltogether into a mixer then don't expect to get clear results.

P.S.:@K9Grip
I've always liked your post and will always like them. Nothing will change.
Whenever it comes to explain animals' behaviors your posts are second to no one and i am happy to know you, to share my thoughts with you, thanks to dr.

[BBKF]

After weighing all the evidence I vote....are you ready?.........Guilty
BTW did the guy who was convicted and in prison ever say that anyone else was involved? I have looked for that, but can't find anything. Maybe gatagato can help me with this.