[b1llygo4t]

From my line of site, I just want idiot white people to stfu so us normal white people can just go about our day in peace. Black people have some catching up to do so they aren't second rate citizens. Let them catch up, either throw them some support or stfu and enjoy your damn privilege

[Overlord86]

Originally Posted by Sinil ↗

I have a LTC in the state of texas. In Texas self defense is no longer a defense if you provoke the attack.

If I walk up to someone, or in this case, go looking for them and I unholster my handgun (if it is a long gun - I unsling it) in a manner that is meant to elicit an action from that person (in this case compliance), that my friends is called assault with a deadly weapon. In Texas you better hope it's justified, because you just gave the person you wanted to stop the right and justification to use deadly force

Not correct. You can walk around with a long gun in Texas, slung or unslung. You violate the law if you act in a way that places someone in fear of bodily injury or serious bodily injury. You violate the law if you brandish a firearm while threatening someone with fear of bodily injury or SBI. Conditional threats aren't a threat.
There is ample case law on that. In the video he says something to the effect of 'I want to talk to you.' Not a threat in Texas. Holding a shotgun while saying it is not a threat. Most likely the same in Georgia because most state law is similar.
You can kind of see this play out in the video. The driver is out and brandishing a shotgun. (Let's hypothetically say the camera man was a separate party with a CCW in Georgia)
Holding it isn't brandishing it. . Then we see the victim jogging, we see him veer away then dash across the front of the truck. The shotgun goes off almost immediately. (In Texas, again, this isn't a justified shot. The victim is unarmed and fails the size difference test. Basically you can't shoot unarmed people unless they are like twice your size or out number you 2 to 1).
There is no specific size or number of opponents in Texas law regarding this. At the time the victim attacks he is justified to use lethal force to protect himself. He has already been assaulted with a deadly weapon and he is out numbered 2 to 1.

We don't see everything that happens. This is speculation. Another observation is the deceased lunged at the suspect unprovoked. The suspect and deceased fight over control of the shotgun. It is seen the shotgun discharges into the deceased's chest during the fight for control of the shotgun. This would be a justified self defense on the part of the suspect in Texas. Standing in the roadway with a shotgun saying 'I want to talk to you' isn't in violation of Texas law.

Say the shooter is a uniformed police officer doing exactly this, standing in the roadway with a shotgun and saying 'I want to talk to you.' The deceased lunges at the officer and outside fights for control of the shotgun. The deceased gets shot. It would be a no bill on behalf of the officer any day of the week

If Georgia law allows for a citizen to detain a suspected felon, this only adds to the defense of the suspect.
Regardless if this is the case, the suspect still has a strong self defense claim. It would be bolstered if they have video of him committing a burglary or prowling around houses.

I only refer to him as the suspect because he has been charged and it is easier to refer to him as the suspect. It could also be flipped and call the man with the shotgun the victim and the deceased the suspect.
Now after he is shot and killed the camera man who I said was hypothetically a CCW holder could shoot both the father and son, and be justified and could claim he/she feared these two were just killing people. Simply based on how the father and son went about this. I look it up and there were no burglaries reported in that area from Jan 01 to the date of the shooting EXCEPT a hand gun stolen from the father's truck that he left unlocked. Against the law to leave firearms unsecure in Texas as well. What law is that?

The guys are making responsible gun owners look HORRIBLE. They weren't defending anything. The father wanted to feel important again. Or the father and son, and the person videoing legitimately thought the deceased was observed committing a felony or was the one that had committed burglaries in the area Walking through a construction site isn't illegal...That's why the 911 operator said..."But what is he doing wrong sir?" It actually is illegal to walk through a construction site. It is criminal trespass if the owner of the land doesn't want you on the property. While you can get away with it, it is still against the law to go on to someone's property. I wouldn't want someone walking through my yard in the middle of the night or during the day when no one is home. Most burglaries do occur in the daytime. Construction site theft is a rampant issue that adds to the cost of a new home. The suspects were in the process of going after what he thought was a fleeing felony suspect. Failure to adequately give a complete and true statement to a 911 PTO, describing a complete history of what had or was occurring. He said enough to get officers started to the scene.

He lied and said there were a string of burglaries but the crime stats for that neighborhood shows that wasn't true.


Just because you didn't find the crime reports doesn't mean the don't exist. There can be a lag time of several days or more for some agencies to enter offense reports and then sending the UCR information to the FBI.

It is one thing to state facts, it is another to state opinions as facts.
These men have the presumption of innocence. It takes time to work it's way through the grand jury and on to the courts for a trial. This isn't a clear cut case. They weren't trying to rob him. They weren't out to murder him. You can't draw a comparison to this incident to one where two guys go into a 7-11 and kill the clerk unprovoked. There are mitigating issues that will need to be resolved in court.


The father just wanted to force this young man to comply with him and the young man said no, and died for it. many great people in our past have died for saying "no"!

Very true, but there are limits to that. One can't say 'no' when someone wants their stolen property returned from them.

[River]

Fuck you to whoever filmed this. How fucking hard can it be to capture an intense moment like this. Just sit back and keep the subject in the frame, ffs.

[rockettemorton]

It’s difficult to understand why two guys would go after this man with weapons. According to the articles there had been one reported break-in, back in January. Maybe they thought they were doing the right thing by their neighborhood, but clearly the information they had was exaggerated if they truly believed there’d been a string of break-ins. It just feels like there was some element behind this that was for fun. I don’t believe they were super concerned about it, that they felt it was a duty, they seemed to have wanted to. Otherwise they wouldn’t have done it.

[Overlord86]

Originally Posted by River ↗

Fuck you to whoever filmed this. How fucking hard can it be to capture an intense moment like this. Just sit back and keep the subject in the frame, ffs.

Correct. This is the real villain in the story. All the half ass recording does is to introduce doubt. A clean recording would settle this public debate one way or the other.

[Overlord86]

Originally Posted by Sinil ↗

Unless you’ve been taught to run from accusations to save yourself. Listen man only so many innocent people can get shot before you have to give credit where it is due.

My fellow Conceal Carry Weapon (CCW) brother Philando Castile told the officer that he had his weapon on him. Then as he went to pull his wallet the officer shot him. That officer was jumpy for no other reason than that Castile was black. I have been pulled over many times in the exact same way and the same script could have been overlaid on my traffic stop...Except I’m not a black man with a weapon...I can be trusted to reach for my wallet.

You can keep pretending that there isn’t an issue with race in America, but that just further divides us all. Yea he prolly shouldn’t have grabbed the gun, but who am I to say what he was thinking at that moment...maybe he thought he was dead anyway, might as well fight.
We should all go down fighting if Given the chance. I mean if you gotta go.

There was the case in Colorado I think where a white woman from Australia walks up to a cop car and gets shot by a black officer. Race wasn't involved in that, just an officer that made a real bad decision.

[Overlord86]

Originally Posted by Omegas3 ↗

Yes, I speculated his race played a factor into why he eas shot because inevitably that's why he was in the first place. The father and son didn't go out hunting for a Mexican or a white male, they went looking for a black male. It's people like you who would rather pick and choose when race can be a factor but if it doesn't affect you, why should it matter? Right? I tell you what, when instances like this happen, let us know when we can speculate if race played a factor. Whether you want to admit it or not it did. Now they are in jail and we will wait to see how it plays out.

I don't believe they would have handled it any differently if it was a white male. They wouldn't let him walk away and not pursued him. I believe they would have had guns out to detain a white suspect just the same.

[benjaminkruger]

Originally Posted by pokerplay ↗

He was trying to rob a house, then ran away. Was seen by the homeowner who tried to detain him until the police arrived - the homewowner called the police. The would-be robber grabbed the gun and did not comply, when he grabbed the gun it was fired and he was shot. He is not a jogger out for a run to his local soup kitchen where he volunteered before taking his grandmother to church. What the law says about citizen's arrest - who knows but the parts leading up to him grabbing the gun and being shot are all bullshit. Does he get to try and rob a house, then just disappear to rob and steal and potentially hurt another innocent family? Law on citizen's arrest should be relevant, and the message is - don't rob families or you may be hurt.

Wrong

[Omegas3]

Originally Posted by Overlord86 ↗

There was the case in Colorado I think where a white woman from Australia walks up to a cop car and gets shot by a black officer. Race wasn't involved in that, just an officer that made a real bad decision.

He also went to prison for that.

[Omegas3]

Originally Posted by benjaminkruger ↗

Wrong

All of that what you typed is a lie. The video shows him just walking through the house, no one detained him. He entered and exited and the homeowner and the sheriff's office confirmed that in a news conference.

Our office has reviewed the surveillance video which appears to show a person, believed to be Ahmaud Arbery, entering a property under construction. The individual remains on the property for under 3 minutes before continuing to jog down the road. This video is consistent with the evidence already known to us. Ahmaud Arbery was out for a jog. He stopped by a property under construction were he engaged in no illegal activity and only remained for a brief period. Ahmaud did not take anything from the construction site. He did not cause any damage to property. He remained for a brief period of time and was not instructed by anyone to leave, but rather left on his own accord to continue his job. Ahmaud’s actions at this empty home under construction were in no way a felony under Georgia law. This video confirms that Mr. Arbery’s murder was not justified and the actions of the men who pursued him and ambushed him were unjustified. We reiterate, Ahmaud Arbery did not take part in ANY felony, had no illegal substances in his system, was not armed yet was shot three times with a shotgun at close range.”