Russia - 2 Dead In Ultralight Accident

docfr8 · #21 ● 10-31-2022, 12:00 AM

Hotdogging that wasn't a good idea

William May · #22 ● 10-31-2022, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by icehole ↗

Glad we had you as an aviation engineer here

Are you still in the business?

Sorry, but I'm NOT an engineer. I have worked on aircraft for 46 years.

I learned a LOT about flight manuals, after my first year of being a mechanic. A friend of mine rented a Grumman Yankee, and I went flying with him. He decided to try some spins, to which I was reluctant, since I hadn't flown very much in small aircraft. He said "Well, let me try it, and if you don't like it, I promise I'll pull out and we'll just forget doing that." So he stalls it, and it snaps right into a spin. I get about 1/2 turn in, and decide I DON'T LIKE THIS AT ALL! So I tell him, and he recovers the aircraft, and we did some other stuff, just dinking around for another half hour or so, before we take the airplane back. I start looking a the flight manual when we get back, and it states

"Aerobatics are permitted, but ABSOLUTELY NO SPINS! The aircraft will tighten it's spin immediately, and after 3 full spins, recovery may be difficult or impossible, and can take up to 7000 feet to recover"

(We were at 3500 feet in the south aircraft practice area, which is about 10 miles south of Tucson International Airport.)

So that taught me to PAY FUCKING ATTENTION TO WHAT THE FLIGHT MANUAL SAYS! So when I started flying Cessna 150's I got the manual and read it through from one end to the other.

My cohort that day also has survived, now has over 10,000 hours, and owns a shop that does warranty work for a bunch of European aircraft manufacturers in Tucson. He worked with me for a long time at Learjet, as we were both Lear mechanics, before he went out on his own.

icehole · #23 ● 10-31-2022, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by William May ↗

Sorry, but I'm NOT an engineer. I have worked on aircraft for 46 years.

I learned a LOT about flight manuals, after my first year of being a mechanic. A friend of mine rented a Grumman Yankee, and I went flying with him. He decided to try some spins, to which I was reluctant, since I hadn't flown very much in small aircraft. He said "Well, let me try it, and if you don't like it, I promise I'll pull out and we'll just forget doing that." So he stalls it, and it snaps right into a spin. I get about 1/2 turn in, and decide I DON'T LIKE THIS AT ALL! So I tell him, and he recovers the aircraft, and we did some other stuff, just dinking around for another half hour or so, before we take the airplane back. I start looking a the flight manual when we get back, and it states

"Aerobatics are permitted, but ABSOLUTELY NO SPINS! The aircraft will tighten it's spin immediately, and after 3 full spins, recovery may be difficult or impossible, and can take up to 7000 feet to recover"

(We were at 3500 feet in the south aircraft practice area, which is about 10 miles south of Tucson International Airport.)

So that taught me to PAY FUCKING ATTENTION TO WHAT THE FLIGHT MANUAL SAYS! So when I started flying Cessna 150's I got the manual and read it through from one end to the other.

My cohort that day also has survived, now has over 10,000 hours, and owns a shop that does warranty work for a bunch of European aircraft manufacturers in Tucson. He worked with me for a long time at Learjet, as we were both Lear mechanics, before he went out on his own.

Thanks for sharing the story!

I also learned that machines are like double-edged blades. Use it right and it might help you, use it wrong and it might injure you, even kill you.
The very first thing I do after buying a tool is to read the manual. I don't know why but I found it relaxing. Almost like reading a novel or comic.

rhubarb_king · #24 ● 10-31-2022, 03:46 AM

I've learned a lot from the contributions to this post.

v1r · #25 ● 10-31-2022, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by rhubarb_king ↗

I've learned a lot from the contributions to this post.

Same.

William May · #26 ● 10-31-2022, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by icehole ↗

Thanks for sharing the story!

I also learned that machines are like double-edged blades. Use it right and it might help you, use it wrong and it might injure you, even kill you.
The very first thing I do after buying a tool is to read the manual. I don't know why but I found it relaxing. Almost like reading a novel or comic.

Very commendable! I also read every manual for every tool I have. It's not so relaxing for me, but it is informative, and like a hobbit, I like to know facts that are clearly stated. It makes me a happy hobbit.

William May · #27 ● 10-31-2022, 12:20 PM

Why would aircraft have differential G loading ratings? Ultralight aircraft can only weigh a max of 254 lbs. If you had to make it +5 G and -5G rated, there might have to be so much weight added that it can now only hold 1 person, instead of 2 like the guy who was flying this one. Fully aerobatic aircraft like a Pitts Special are probably rated to +10 G's and -10 G's but they are fully engineered to this, and won't come apart no matter what you do when you fly.
Airliners are probably rated at 3-4 G's positive and negative. But when you carry people, it's more like a bus than an aircraft, so they should never see 3-4 G's either positive or negative. I'm willing to bet this ultralight was designed up to 4 G's, or maybe 5 G's, if the designer was good. But at the same time, engineers have to watch the weight, so they probably made it a no-aerobatic ultralight with a negative G rating of 2. It will stand a little, but not a lot. If they ever identify what aircraft it was that crashed, we can probably hunt up the flight manual and see if I was correct, or just talking out my ass. It COULD also have been rated to 5 G's plus and minus, but the owner lost or did not tighten some of the flight cables. There are a lot of cables on a small ultralight, and they are all critical.
There also ARE aerobatic ultralights. But I don't think this one was one of those. It looks like the kind I would buy, just to fly and go out and look at the cows and the scenery. The aerobatic ones use titanium a lot, and heavier cables. And even a used one would be pretty expensive. I assume this guy found it on the Russian Ebay, and went and bought it and drove it home on top of his Lada, and put it back together in his driveway, and it looked OK to him, so he went out and started being a fighter pilot. oh, well.