[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by chumster76 ↗

Biggest mistake in history was not returning them back to their native land after the war.

Groundhog Day in here sometimes.

By the time of the Civil War, this was their native land. Black Americans were not some temporary population here on a visitor pass. They had been here for nearly 250 years by that point, about as long as the US has been a nation today. They were multi-generation Americans, born here, raised here, and culturally rooted here. You do not "return" people to a place they have never lived and have no ties to.

There was no unified "native land" to send anyone to. Africa is a continent with dozens of major ethnic groups, hundreds of cultures, and different languages. The idea that people who had been here for generations could just be dropped somewhere on that continent and be considered "home" is historically inaccurate.

Lincoln did explore colonization ideas early on, but he abandoned them once he actually spoke to black leaders who told him clearly that they were Americans and that their roots, families, and future were here. After that, Lincoln shifted toward seeing emancipation and citizenship as the necessary path forward.

After slavery ended, you had Black Codes, convict leasing, Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, redlining, policing built on racial control, and a civil rights movement just to be treated as human. You still have people treating them like they are not human. Four hundred years of exploitation, terror, and second-class citizenship, just to name a few things that were done to black communities... and people still act confused about why violence exists there.

There is no mystery to it. It is just easy to ignore and dismiss when you have no interest in thinking beyond bumper sticker takes like "Lincoln's mistake" or "send 'em back to Africa".

[philovan]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Groundhog Day in here sometimes.

By the time of the Civil War, this was their native land. Black Americans were not some temporary population here on a visitor pass. They had been here for nearly 250 years by that point, about as long as the US has been a nation today. They were multi-generation Americans, born here, raised here, and culturally rooted here. You do not "return" people to a place they have never lived and have no ties to.

There was no unified "native land" to send anyone to. Africa is a continent with dozens of major ethnic groups, hundreds of cultures, and different languages. The idea that people who had been here for generations could just be dropped somewhere on that continent and be considered "home" is historically inaccurate.

Lincoln did explore colonization ideas early on, but he abandoned them once he actually spoke to black leaders who told him clearly that they were Americans and that their roots, families, and future were here. After that, Lincoln shifted toward seeing emancipation and citizenship as the necessary path forward.

After slavery ended, you had Black Codes, convict leasing, Jim Crow, segregation, lynchings, redlining, policing built on racial control, and a civil rights movement just to be treated as human. You still have people treating them like they are not human. Four hundred years of exploitation, terror, and second-class citizenship, just to name a few things that were done to black communities... and people still act confused about why violence exists there.

There is no mystery to it. It is just easy to ignore and dismiss when you have no interest in thinking beyond bumper sticker takes like "Lincoln's mistake" or "send 'em back to Africa".

An excellent recap of history and culture. I find myself agreeing with you all the way until near the end when you appear to excuse current violence on the basis of past mistreatment of forebears. That doesn't fly.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by philovan ↗

An excellent recap of history and culture. I find myself agreeing with you all the way until near the end when you appear to excuse current violence on the basis of past mistreatment of forebears. That doesn't fly.

I get what you're saying, and just to clarify, explaining context is not the same thing as excusing behavior. I hoped that would go without saying.

The point I was making was that people often talk about violence in the black community as if it exists in a vacuum or as if it is some genetic personality trait, which is obviously not the case. And they talk as if all black people are the same, which they are not.

Violence is a human condition. Every human, regardless of race or culture or anything else, is capable of unspeakable violence. Not every human will be violent, but the right mix of precursors and circumstances can bring that out. I was pointing out that there are historical and structural reasons that help explain the violence in and around the black community. That is not the same thing as condoning it. I don't condone anyone playing god with any living creature, ever. It is one of my biggest gripes about humanity and always will be.

So yeah, context is not an excuse. It is just context. And whether people want to acknowledge it or not, it matters.

I know it hasn’t happened historically, but I appreciate civil discussions between us when they do happen.

[philovan]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

I know it hasn’t happened historically, but I appreciate civil discussions between us when they do happen.

Well, that's largely my fault. I can get rather salty and acerbic at times, and just toss stuff off in wise-ass fashion. I always loved being a wise ass from my school days. Don't take that stuff seriously. I'm past 80 now, and mellowing out some.

[Boosted4v]

I mean this has to be one of the most ill thought out robberies ever. What a bunch of absolute idiots.

[Yanni]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

people often talk about violence in the black community as if it exists in a vacuum or as if it is some genetic personality trait, which is obviously not the case.

obviously.

it is so obviously not the case.

[genericname79]

The two killers who are brothers were both sentenced today to life in prison without the possibility of parole. The third killer was previously given the same sentence, so all three got life without parole.

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by ><0300>< ↗

He brought all that to his own house sadly. What a pitiful "father". Not that I'm condoning those animals behavior.

Came here to say this. My heart breaks for those kids and it was really hard to watch the oldest scream and cry. At the same time, what kind of dumbass father even puts his kids in this situation? If you really loved them, you wouldn't be involved in any of this bullshit. The only redeeming thing about the intruders is they didn't touch the kids.

What an incredibly fucked up situation.

[ninjasalad]

Was the video edited or do the cameras cut off for the kills? Kind of lame and odd, video is horrific with the children wandering around but censored?

[ninjasalad]

The US needs a massive 500f deep, 1km wide pit built in the mountains somewhere with some tiny 1 inch drains so the filth can be hosed out once in a while to cut down on disease to prolong the inmates lives. People who do this stuff get put in the pit with the rest of the animals where they're recorded 24/7. Would be the greatest tv show on earth. Could brand the prisoners and bet on their lives. Once a week a crew would come and hose down the pit, maybe throw dump food waste from nearby restaurants into the pit.

Eventually the drains would get clogged and they'd have to let the remaining folk die, then a crew would go in and fix up the place, maybe a week downtime.