[AlvinKarpis]

Originally Posted by The Dark ↗

Being a huge Gilles Villeneuve fan, it's hard to have that much sympathy for Pironi

I hate this picture

Pironi with both his and Gilles helmets after Gilles fatal crash

[AlvinKarpis]

I have so many videos, some rare, some kinda rare, some not rare

But I always try to have the highest quality, original recording, or live broadcast

I am very lucky to have a father who in the 1980s recorded everything that had to do with the Indy 500 and CART on VHS

I found 3 large boxes of VHS tapes in his attic 10-15 years ago and have been ripping the VHS through my dual player on to my computer shortly after I found them

In fact I still see my videos from time to time on Youtube that I know for a fact came from my dads VHS tapes that I downloaded online back when you had to be a rocket scientist to upload and download videos before Youtube and other video sites made it much easier

I cant complain however, because I am guilty of the same thing, that is not being the original uploader of a video or image, but I paid my dues and put in work from back in the day so I stay silent if I see anything I know came from me because like I said, I dont have room to talk

Anyways time to start posting these vids for all to see, if I have pictures to go with the vids I will post those as well

Lets start off with the original broadcast on ESPN of Greg Moores fatal crash

Pretty good quality

RIP

[Norwegian1]

ouch!! I hope he died quickly and didn't feel any of that....

[The Dark]

As a huge Indycar/IRL fan, the loss of Greg Moore was a huge tragedy. He raced that day despite breaking his hand in 2 places the previous day. It was his last race for the Players team as he was due to join Penske (for F1 fans who don't know that's kind of like leaving Force India for Ferrari) in 2000.

His fatal crash was one of those that you knew was fatal as soon as you saw it, even the announcers knew it. It topped off a season of disaster with Gonzalo Rodriguez's fatal crash at Laguna Seca still fresh in minds.

Moore's accident had long-term impact as well.... his now spare seat at Penske was taken by the unemployed Helio Castroneves, he would win the Indy 500 three times (some will say twice ;-)....)
and also be the subject of an IRS trial due to complications over the contract he quickly signed in the wake of Moore's death.

There is little doubt in my mind, as well as many others that Greg Moore would have been a champion many times over. He was actually responsible for introducing Ashley Judd to her future husband, Dario Franchitti.

Franchitti was of course to lose another close friend in Dan Wheldon at Las Vegas last year, spookily that was the first race Greg Moore's dad had attended since his son's own death 12 years previously.

[bluelamp]

This is one of the best threads on this forum. I just spent a couple of hours burning through the whole thing. Thanks, Alvin, for putting it together.

Originally Posted by The Dark ↗

Given how the success of the film-doc "Senna" (just don't ask about it's whitewash job on the subject!)

I'll ask! I liked the film but since I don't have a background as an F1 fan I don't know much beyond what the film told me.

[AlvinKarpis]

Originally Posted by The Dark ↗

There is little doubt in my mind, as well as many others that Greg Moore would have been a champion many times over.

Oh not only is there no doubt in my mind, I guarantee he would have won multiple championships

Same with Swede Savage, my mom and her brother grew up in Carson California and all of her guy friends would take the girls to the racetrack in Riverside and watch the go-kart, midget car and motorcycle races every Friday night, all of the girls (and most of the guys ) favorite was a tall blonde guy named David Savage

Now my mom thought he was great because she was head over heals for the guy, so her opinion of him hold little water as to how good he really was, but my uncle on the other hand who has never stopped racing motorcycles and knows everything about racing in Southern and Central California in the 60s and 70s says that Savage was the best pure driver of any type of machine that he had ever seen in his life

And he watched Rick Mears and his brother Roger race at least 100 times as in my uncles early 20s him and all of his motorcycle racing buddies would drive up over the grapevine to Bakersfield and watch the brothers race

In fact I have a video of Savages crash with a couple different angles and footage of him trying to get out of the wreckage on fire as well as rare footage of Armando Teran being hit by the Safety truck (you cant see the impact because the truck blocks it)

My mother saw Savages crash on TV and could not believe that her childhood crush was the person in the car behind that massive crash

She never watched another racing event again and refused to sit with my father myself and my brothers when it was Indy 500 weekend

RIP Swede, like Greg Moore I just know you would have been a champion, in fact I think it would have been a great showdown between Savage and my all time favorite driver Gordon Johncock for first place in 1973 if Savage had never crashed

RIP Armando as well

This is ripped from the awesome DVD Collection put out by IMS in the late 90s or early 2000s that showcased the Indy 500 by decades. This is from the disc "The 70's A decade Of Legends"

[AlvinKarpis]

The first Indy 500 I attended (my father and I flew to Indianapolis and stayed for 3 days) was in 1989, and it was by far my most cherished racing memory (as it would be anybody elses im sure) first the whole atmosphere of Indy is amazing, everybody is super pumped up, when I go to a football or baseball game there are always fans who could care less if they were at the game or watchng paint peel, bitching about everything, telling you to stop standing up, bitching about prices to the beer guy, at Indy I never saw one person who was like that, everyone was so happy to be there, thats what I felt and thats what I loved

The second thing I felt was the sound of the engines. Hearing them on TV is one thing, in person you feel the sound, it is the sweetest sound I have ever heard

My father and I were sitting at the very end of the turn 4 bend, so from behind the cars going away from us we witnessed Kevin Cogan's crash

Now that was horrifying, I thought I had just watched a man die and was instantly super scared and frozen solid

Then the clouds parted and like a vision of Jesus Cogan crawls out and walks away staring at the hulk of twisted metal that used to be his car

I though Cogan was superman or from another planet where injuries and death do not apply

The sound was so horrible, and we could even feel the heat from the crash all the way back down the finish stretch

Thats why when I watch the Smiley or Savage wrecks the first thing I think of is if Cogans crash was that bad in person and he walked away, I cant begin to dream of being there to witness and hear those crashes

Then the finish, I hated Emerson Fittipaldi with a passion after this race, and not because of the stupid Orange Juice deal, but because I thought he bumped Al Jr. and crashed him out on purpose

I wanted Jr to win sooooooo bad. And we all trhought he was going to flip Emo off or throw his helmet at him after he got out of his wrecked car

I learned later that Al Jr was not upset and that it was just great racing with neither of them giving up

Here are both videos that I cherish as much as my memories

[The Myth]

Thanks AlvinKarpis, I like the way you personalize your posts especially the last one. Memories and reflections add a lot to the thread, for me anyways because we can all relate it to some moment/time in our own lives, and love of motorsport, and once again: ...... FANTASTIC thread!.

[The Dark]

Originally Posted by bluelamp ↗

I'll ask! I liked the film but since I don't have a background as an F1 fan I don't know much beyond what the film told me.

Well the film was a great one, with many an emotional moment, not least the Imola weekend. The level of footage is unsurpassed with full access to the FOM archives - owned by Bernie Ecclestone who is known as the toughest businessman around.

But.... it demonized Prost, whilst never a fan he wasn't the devil incarnate as portrayed by the film. Of course many films have a hero (senna) and a villain (prost) but it blames Prost for just about everything Senna had to overcome until it shows the FIA president up as less capable than Dubya!

The simple facts are that Senna began the "rough driving" by pushing Prost at the pitwall in Estoril in 1988, then reneging on a deal where they wouldn't fight for the lead at Imola 89.... neither of these were even mentioned in the film.

Fact is, Prost took Senna off in 1989 for the title in a clumsy move, Senna basically did a video game crash on him in 1990 & should have been banned, not only did it show F1 in an awful light, it legitimized that type of move to win a title. Plus of course he could have killed himself, Prost, fans, who knows - and if you think I'm being dramatic, watch the video, then seek out a "Hitoshi Ogawa" crash - virtually identical except Ogawa hits a marshals post in mid air and dies instantly.

As I said, the film is great, not only for fans, but fans know some "latitudes" were taken in the telling of the story

[windowlicker]

I totally agree with the above, I watched it once and gave it away...
I started watching F1 in 1987 and Senna was a great but flawed driver. His move on Prost in Japan 1990 was a disgrace.

For me the greatest will always be Jim Clark, absolute, total class...