[Faust]

Hi, can you tell me the number of Ukrainians that died in the holodomor, just the number and only the western narrative
ChatGPT said:

ChatGPT
The number of Ukrainians who died in the Holodomor, according to the western narrative, is generally estimated to be around 3.9 million.



You said:
Thank you, now would you list the population of Ukraine starting from 1920 and ending in 1937, I don’t want any narrative spin, just the numbers in a list form could you do that for me?
ChatGPT said:

ChatGPT
Certainly! Here is a list of the estimated population of Ukraine for the years 1920 through 1937:

1920: 29.2 million
1921: 29.3 million
1926: 30.9 million (based on the All-Union Census)
1930: 32.1 million
1932: 33.0 million
1937: 34.3 million
Note that these figures are estimates, as exact population data can vary depending on sources and methodology.



You said:
Looks like you skipped a few years, can you do it again
ChatGPT said:

ChatGPT
Apologies for the oversight. Here’s the corrected and more detailed list of the population of Ukraine from 1920 to 1937, broken down by each year:

1920: 29.2 million
1921: 29.3 million
1922: 29.5 million
1923: 29.7 million
1924: 29.9 million
1925: 30.1 million
1926: 30.9 million (based on the All-Union Census)
1927: 31.3 million
1928: 31.6 million
1929: 31.8 million
1930: 32.1 million
1931: 32.4 million
1932: 33.0 million
1933: 32.9 million (due to the effects of the Holodomor)
1934: 33.3 million
1935: 33.6 million
1936: 34.0 million
1937: 34.3 million
These numbers are estimates, as official population records from this period can be difficult to confirm due to factors like migration, censuses, and the impact of events like the Holodomor.

[Faust]

Also the US is not the bad guy it is a wonderful country with many good and brave and loving people. My criticism is only with some foreign policy and regime change, though you might say that is conspiracy so it is not worth it to have a debate about.

Ukraine being a proxy war was a conspiracy until Boris Johnson says it out loud, think about that

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Now, as the GPT says, getting any accurate numbers would be almost impossible during a famine...precisely because its a famine. People are fighting for their lives and not counting each other.

You also need to consider the obvious elephant in the room. Its in Russian playbook to depopulate native people and replace them with their own people. So, even if the population stayed roughly the same, it wouldnt mean that Ukrainians didnt die. As long as russians shipped in their own comrades, taking over ukrainian homes, the numbers would remain the same. Its roughly what their TV and military propagandist promise to their soldiers now. Go attack Kiev and if you conquer it, you can take the homes of the people you killed.
Same thing happened in Mariupol. Who do you think came to fill the empty houses in those territories?

[Faust]

Harvard University's involvement in digital mapping projects related to Ukraine, particularly through its Ukrainian Studies Program and other related initiatives, began to take shape more prominently after 2014, following Russia's annexation of Crimea and the outbreak of the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Key Milestones:
Post-2014: After the annexation of Crimea and the ongoing war in eastern Ukraine, there was a significant increase in interest in Ukraine’s territorial integrity, history, and digital mapping needs. Harvard University began ramping up its research into Ukraine's historical and current geography, which laid the groundwork for later digital projects. These projects initially focused on gathering geospatial data, understanding territorial changes, and documenting Ukrainian history.
2016–2017: Harvard scholars, particularly those in the Ukrainian Studies Program and associated departments (like the Harvard Ukrainian Research Institute), began more actively engaging in digital initiatives related to Ukraine. This included the development of digital resources such as historical atlases, maps of Ukraine's shifting borders, and geographic databases. These efforts were part of larger academic and scholarly goals to better understand Ukraine's history, geography, and contemporary challenges.
2018–2019: Harvard started formalizing its digital mapping efforts, creating online resources and tools for studying Ukraine. These resources included geospatial data on Ukrainian infrastructure, borders, and conflicts, often used for academic research, policy analysis, and humanitarian aid during the ongoing conflict. Harvard's involvement also included efforts to support Ukraine's efforts to modernize its digital infrastructure, including mapping and spatial analysis tools for urban planning and crisis response.
2022–Present: Following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, Harvard’s involvement in digital mapping and geospatial research has taken on an even greater significance. During this period, Harvard’s Center for Geographic Analysis (CGA) and other academic units contributed to digital mapping efforts, focusing on crisis mapping, territorial changes, and providing geospatial tools to support Ukraine’s military and humanitarian needs. These initiatives include mapping the damage to critical infrastructure, tracking displaced populations, and providing real-time mapping of the conflict zone.

Like I tried to explain earlier; it’s all part of the post-2014 history, they made these numbers up so that people like you could believe in it. Imagine 80 years later some soros funded foundation coming up with new numbers

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Like I tried to explain earlier; it’s all part of the post-2014 history, they made these numbers up so that people like you could believe in it. Imagine 80 years later some soros funded foundation coming up with new numbers

Sure, George soros is behind it all. We all know how poor and desperate he is for money. Im sure Bill Gates is also in on it.

Now, on a serious notes, there were censuses and prior data about Ukraine at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censuses_in_Ukraine

And thats years later, even after natives had been replaced by russians

[Faust]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Sure, George soros is behind it all. We all know how poor and desperate he is for money. Im sure Bill Gates is also in on it.

Now, on a serious notes, there were censuses and prior data about Ukraine at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censuses_in_Ukraine

And thats years later, even after natives had been replaced by russians

That Wikipedia page probably goes against your current Ukraine war narrative if you look at the Russian population in 1989..
That was more than a quarter of the entire population, yet most of you still believe it was a minority in the Eastern regions.

“Its in Russian playbook to depopulate native people and replace them with their own people. So, even if the population stayed roughly the same, it wouldnt mean that Ukrainians didnt die. As long as russians shipped in their own comrades, taking over ukrainian homes, the numbers would remain the same.”

So no disrespect but you are saying you believe it happened, if any numbers show otherwise then it must mean it still has happened but the population was replaced by Russians and thus it stayed the same numerically.

Can’t argue with that!

But you will at one point realize those Russians would need to have come from somewhere. So now your are getting into the territory where the entire soviet population must have been a lie because all data from that time should have shown the millions used to replace the Ukrainians disappearing from the soviet numbers. This is what post-2014 Ukrainian scholars are trained to avoid I’d imagine

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

That Wikipedia page probably goes against your current Ukraine war narrative if you look at the Russian population in 1989..
That was more than a quarter of the entire population, yet most of you still believe it was a minority in the Eastern regions.




So no disrespect but you are saying you believe it happened, if any numbers show otherwise then it must mean it still has happened but the population was replaced by Russians and thus it stayed the same numerically.

Can’t argue with that!

But you will at one point realize those Russians would need to have come from somewhere. So now your are getting into the territory where the entire soviet population must have been a lie because all data from that time should have shown the millions used to replace the Ukrainians disappearing from the soviet numbers. This is what post-2014 Ukrainian scholars are trained to avoid I’d imagine

I wouldn't say more than a quarter, and no, it doesn't go against any narrative.
My point was that Ukrainian population went down during Stalin's famine and the census shows the drop. I also said that it could easily be that russians simply replaced ukrainians, as they have done with other groups in the past. And if you look at the census data, that seems to be the case.
Of course all numbers from the russians are questionable anyways, given how they wanted to downplay the deaths, but still, even with those numbers, you can see

If you look at the years highlighted and look at the population change, it does look weird that whilst the Ukrainian population took a hit and went down, the russian population was growing quite significantly.
That growth then continued disproportionately.

Resettling russians into occupied territories is an old strategy and part of russification.
You can read more about it from our lovely AI overlord.

context: Russian history
What does the word russification mean and what did it mean for a country to be "russified" during the soviet era.

Russification refers to a policy or process aimed at promoting Russian language, culture, and identity in non-Russian regions or populations, often at the expense of local traditions and languages. This policy was used both during the Russian Empire and the Soviet era, but its goals and methods evolved over time.

Meaning of Russification
Cultural Assimilation: Encouraging or forcing the adoption of Russian language, customs, and values among non-Russian ethnic groups.
Political Control: Centralizing power in Moscow by diminishing regional autonomy and replacing local leaders with those loyal to Russian or Soviet authority.
Language Policy: Promoting the Russian language as the lingua franca of government, education, and communication, often marginalizing or banning local languages.


Language Supremacy:

Russian became the dominant language in education, administration, and the military.
Non-Russian languages were often relegated to secondary status, and proficiency in Russian was crucial for career advancement.
Migration Policies:

Large-scale resettlements of ethnic Russians into non-Russian republics (e.g., the Baltic States, Central Asia) shifted the demographic balance.
This often created resentment among local populations, as it diluted their cultural and linguistic identities.

Impact of Russification
The effects of Russification during the Soviet era were profound and long-lasting:

Cultural Loss: Many ethnic groups experienced a decline in the use of their native languages and customs.
Resentment and Resistance: Russification policies often bred resentment, leading to nationalist movements and demands for independence, particularly in places like the Baltic States, Ukraine, and the Caucasus.
Legacy Issues: After the Soviet Union's collapse, many former Soviet republics pursued policies of "de-Russification" to revive their native cultures and languages.

Can you give me some examples of the Migration Policies, under which russians were resettled into other states?

During the Soviet era, migration policies deliberately resettled ethnic Russians into other Soviet republics as part of broader Russification efforts. These policies were implemented through various mechanisms, including state-organized industrial development projects, military postings, and agricultural initiatives, often under the guise of promoting socialism and economic development.

Here are some notable examples:

1. Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania)

Migration Policy: After the Soviet Union annexed the Baltic States in 1940 and reoccupied them after World War II, the Soviet government encouraged large-scale migration of Russians (and other Soviet nationalities) into the region.

Purpose: Dilute the ethnic homogeneity of the Baltic peoples.
Ensure loyalty to the Soviet regime by increasing the number of Russian-speaking citizens.
Staff Soviet-controlled industries and administrative roles with individuals loyal to Moscow.

Result: By the late Soviet period, Russians comprised a significant minority in the Baltic States:

In Latvia, the percentage of ethnic Russians rose from 8.8% in 1935 to over 34% by the 1980s.

Similar demographic shifts occurred in Estonia, where the Russian population grew to approximately 30% by the 1980s.

2. Kazakhstan and Central Asia
Migration Policy: The Virgin Lands Campaign (1953–1965) under Nikita Khrushchev encouraged ethnic Russians and other Slavs (e.g., Ukrainians, Belarusians) to move to Kazakhstan and other Central Asian republics to cultivate unused agricultural land.

Purpose:Boost agricultural production and food security across the USSR.
Strengthen Soviet control over the culturally distinct and historically independent Central Asian region.
Result: Ethnic Russians became a dominant presence in urban centers like Almaty and other industrial hubs.
In Kazakhstan, the Russian population grew dramatically, reaching nearly 40% of the total by the 1970s.

3. Ukraine

Migration Policy: Ukraine, as one of the most industrialized Soviet republics, attracted a large influx of Russian workers to staff factories, mines, and other key sectors.
Purpose: Consolidate Soviet control over a region with a strong sense of national identity and historical resistance to Russian domination.

Develop industrial centers in cities like Donetsk, Luhansk, and Kharkiv.
Result: Significant Russian-speaking populations were established, especially in eastern and southern Ukraine.
These demographic shifts have had long-term political and cultural implications, contributing to modern tensions in regions like Crimea and the Donbas.

Crimea
Migration Policy: After the forced deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1944, Russians and other Slavic peoples were resettled in Crimea.

Purpose: Repopulate the region with citizens considered more loyal to the Soviet regime.
Eliminate the historical presence of a potentially "anti-Soviet" ethnic group.

Result: By the 1980s, Russians made up the majority of Crimea’s population, replacing the Tatars, who were only allowed to return in the late 1980s.

[Roosta]

Save you breath Scorp.
A saying that goes, "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level & beat you with experience" comes to mind with fausts latest rant about shit he no comprehension about, let alone make any factual points about the orc history & reasons for the invasion ect. Also, don't forget that he's a true believer with regards to his support for his russian masters & their genocidal smo invasion of Ukraine & are trying nothing more than to wipe it from the pages of history & he supports that shit 110% with his keyboard warrior bullshit. I'm not sure what's worse, a participant or a supporting spectator.

Hey Poo Tin & his Bitches, "GO FUCK YOURSELVES" !

[Faust]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

I wouldn't say more than a quarter, and no, it doesn't go against any narrative.
My point was that Ukrainian population went down during Stalin's famine and the census shows the drop. I also said that it could easily be that russians simply replaced ukrainians, as they have done with other groups in the past. And if you look at the census data, that seems to be the case.
Of course all numbers from the russians are questionable anyways, given how they wanted to downplay the deaths, but still, even with those numbers, you can see

If you look at the years highlighted and look at the population change, it does look weird that whilst the Ukrainian population took a hit and went down, the russian population was growing quite significantly.
That growth then continued disproportionately.

Resettling russians into occupied territories is an old strategy and part of russification.
You can read more about it from our lovely AI overlord.

1944 was even before the state of Israel was formed, I don’t think you want to go there to set an example..

[Faust]

Originally Posted by Roosta ↗

Save you breath Scorp.
A saying that goes, "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level & beat you with experience" comes to mind with fausts latest rant about shit he no comprehension about, let alone make any factual points about the orc history & reasons for the invasion ect. Also, don't forget that he's a true believer with regards to his support for his russian masters & their genocidal smo invasion of Ukraine & are trying nothing more than to wipe it from the pages of history & he supports that shit 110% with his keyboard warrior bullshit. I'm not sure what's worse, a participant or a supporting spectator.

Hey Poo Tin & his Bitches, "GO FUCK YOURSELVES" !

You continue your trolling and your strong language.

I probably view Ukrainian lives the same way as most of you view Palestinian lives