[WhiskeyOutpost]

Any sane leader wouldn't have even tried what's going on right now. And the Russian misinformation campaign is absolutely nuts... you can pretty much guarantee anything Russian government says is precisely 180 degrees around from the truth or extremely, willfully misleading as a bare minimum. If they're talking, they're lying. Even worse than other countries do.

Huge amounts of young Russians and educated Russians have been leaving the country at large rates, this is well known. There's a reason for this, the ones who mean well, have a brain, and have the money to leave, leave. I'd encourage them to stay and improve the country, but everyone thinks they're just one person, what difference could they make especially when a vile, amoral despot rules them and extreme corruption is the rule rather than the exception.

I keep hearing from the Soviet corner that "Nationalist" Ukrainians committed a "coup" and that they "took" power. Laugh. They got pissed off that their "President" was just a pro-Russia lackey and they threw him out. Dude ran away like a little bitch to his Kremlin handlers at the first sign of real trouble.

I'd like to think that normal everyday Russians have no part in this and are just innocent bystanders to this insanity, but a quote comes to mind.

“Every nation deserves the government they have” — Joseph de Maistre.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

Any sane leader wouldn't have even tried what's going on right now. And the Russian misinformation campaign is absolutely nuts... you can pretty much guarantee anything Russian government says is precisely 180 degrees around from the truth or extremely, willfully misleading as a bare minimum. If they're talking, they're lying. Even worse than other countries do.

Huge amounts of young Russians and educated Russians have been leaving the country at large rates, this is well known. There's a reason for this, the ones who mean well, have a brain, and have the money to leave, leave. I'd encourage them to stay and improve the country, but everyone thinks they're just one person, what difference could they make especially when a vile, amoral despot rules them and extreme corruption is the rule rather than the exception.

I keep hearing from the Soviet corner that "Nationalist" Ukrainians committed a "coup" and that they "took" power. Laugh. They got pissed off that their "President" was just a pro-Russia lackey and they threw him out. Dude ran away like a little bitch to his Kremlin handlers at the first sign of real trouble.

I'd like to think that normal everyday Russians have no part in this and are just innocent bystanders to this insanity, but a quote comes to mind.

“Every nation deserves the government they have” — Joseph de Maistre.

They dont want to die in a war they dont belong to, period, thats why they run. I dont Balme them, this war is BS. During first rounds of mobilizations hundred thousands of young Ukrainians ran away from the country as well, so what now?

"I keep hearing from the Soviet corner that "Nationalist" Ukrainians committed a "coup" and that they "took" power. Laugh. They got pissed off that their "President" was just a pro-Russia lackey and they threw him out. Dude ran away like a little bitch to his Kremlin handlers at the first sign of real trouble."

Funny. Who they? 99% of Ukraine was working, who asked them to storm the goverment? Exactly, no-one and no flying fucks were given about southeastern Ukrainians. Thats over 6 millions people were shitted on. Were they given an option to vote? NO, were they given an option to protest against new goverment? laugh. Dont stretch western Ukraine on the rest of it, shit was not going to work out. Only people who thinks they know everything about this country, will continue cancel out opinion and right of the rest of Ukraine who was not happy about what happened on Maidain...or at least the way it happened and how west reacted to it. They welcomed criminals, who broke their promise that was made in front of western representatives.

Shit started earlier when Yanukovich was up against Ushenko. West was for Ushenko...Yanukovich won and under pressure of opposition and west there was another ( 3rd) unconstitutional vote count...after which Ushenko won. Where the fuck was Russia to protect his puppet? Why didn't they jump in and told him to stfu opposition, call elections legit and call it end of a day? South East Ukraine accepted it, because at least it looked like a constitutional change of power, but everyone was laughing about it how dirty it was. In 2014 opposition with the West support went over the borders. Fuck that 2014 goverment, fucking bunch of psychopath, thieves, killers and liars.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

"....and took power, illegally and by force"
A nice sweet revolution...against a politician that betrayed its people. If only people in every country did the same, we would have a decent government that cares about its people and we wouldn't have dictators anymore.

"I think the reason why the west let them do it....blame the west ...bla bla"
the west didn't do anything or allow anything during the Maidan revolution. It was all Ukrainians. And all for a good reason.

"They are home."
No, they are not.
If you believe that you are a Russian but look at a map, and see that you are in Ukraine, then you should realize that you are not at home. You should move to Russia to be in home. Its simple.
1) Are you Russian
2) If yes, check the country you are in.
2.1) Is it Russia?
2.1.1) Yes....All good, you are at home

2.1.2) No....You are in some other country that is not Russia
You are not at home. You can stay where you are, but you should know that it is useful to learn the language and habits of the country you are in.

The reality is that Russia is the largest country in the world. It doesn't need any more land. If it really ....truyly cared for its people abroad...it would recall them to Russia. Win-win. Russia needs young people due to demographic problems...and Russians living abroad would get to return to their ancestral homeland.

Im just curious...would you approve an invasion and genocide of people living in the Baltics too? Should we give up the little land we have so Russians who replaced the locals who were murdered or deported from Baltics could feel better?

How about starting an invasion and genocide in Kazakhstan and Georgia? So many Russians escaped into those countries that it warrants a liberation...don't you think? There are a lot of Russians living in the United States too. They need liberation too...i think.

Typical "west is not responsible for anything"

On your check list first mark will be - Ukrainian. So what now?

Explain your curiosity since I dont support this war.
I have nothing in common with Baltics I told you many times, why you keep bringing that up.

All the people who live in south Eastern Ukraine are Russians? This is beyond stupid, ill tell you that

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

They dont want to die in a war they dont belong to, period, thats why they run. I dont Balme them, this war is BS. During first rounds of mobilizations hundred thousands of young Ukrainians ran away from the country as well, so what now?

"I keep hearing from the Soviet corner that "Nationalist" Ukrainians committed a "coup" and that they "took" power. Laugh. They got pissed off that their "President" was just a pro-Russia lackey and they threw him out. Dude ran away like a little bitch to his Kremlin handlers at the first sign of real trouble."

Funny. Who they? 99% of Ukraine was working, who asked them to storm the goverment? Exactly, no-one and no flying fucks were given about southeastern Ukrainians. Thats over 6 millions people were shitted on. Were they given an option to vote? NO, were they given an option to protest against new goverment? laugh. Dont stretch western Ukraine on the rest of it, shit was not going to work out. Only people who thinks they know everything about this country, will continue cancel out opinion and right of the rest of Ukraine who was not happy about what happened on Maidain...or at least the way it happened and how west reacted to it. They welcomed criminals, who broke their promise that was made in front of western representatives.

Shit started earlier when Yanukovich was up against Ushenko. West was for Ushenko...Yanukovich won and under pressure of opposition and west there was another ( 3rd) unconstitutional vote count...after which Ushenko won. Where the fuck was Russia to protect his puppet? Why didn't they jump in and told him to stfu opposition, call elections legit and call it end of a day? South East Ukraine accepted it, because at least it looked like a constitutional change of power, but everyone was laughing about it how dirty it was. In 2014 opposition with the West support went over the borders. Fuck that 2014 goverment, fucking bunch of psychopath, thieves, killers and liars.

You say this war is BS. Yet in the past you've said that the reasons for the war are justified. So what's BS in your opinion, the reasons for it, or the war being launched itself. Which?

Military service is not for everyone regardless of the "reasons" or justification for war. Yeah, a lot of Ukrainian men left the country to avoid conscription. They had their reasons as do Russian men. I don't really blame them.

The fact that 90 some percent of Ukraine was working matters not - if people get pissed off enough they'll do what they want to do regardless of employment status. These are humans.

I don't claim to know everything about Ukraine not have I ever. But I do know something of countries' encroachment on other countries they don't belong in, I knew from the moment I was in Afghanistan and started talking with Pashtu-speaking people we had no business in here. I spent a total of 21 months there over two deployments.

Of course Ukr people in Donbas weren't given a "chance" to vote. Why even bring one up, Russia was trying to install a long term puppet like Belarussia's Lukashenka. You're with us or you're with Russia?

Also you are not "given the chance" to protest a new govt, you just do it. "They welcomed criminals" you say... like Russian examples? Bullshit. Just Rus propaganda. Ukraine is just chalk full of criminals but the Russian conscience is as clean as freshly laundered white linen, yeah okay.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by WhiskeyOutpost ↗

You say this war is BS. Yet in the past you've said that the reasons for the war are justified. So what's BS in your opinion, the reasons for it, or the war being launched itself. Which?

Military service is not for everyone regardless of the "reasons" or justification for war. Yeah, a lot of Ukrainian men left the country to avoid conscription. They had their reasons as do Russian men. I don't really blame them.

The fact that 90 some percent of Ukraine was working matters not - if people get pissed off enough they'll do what they want to do regardless of employment status. These are humans.

I don't claim to know everything about Ukraine not have I ever. But I do know something of countries' encroachment on other countries they don't belong in, I knew from the moment I was in Afghanistan and started talking with Pashtu-speaking people we had no business in here. I spent a total of 21 months there over two deployments.

Of course Ukr people in Donbas weren't given a "chance" to vote. Why even bring one up, Russia was trying to install a long term puppet like Belarussia's Lukashenka. You're with us or you're with Russia?

Also you are not "given the chance" to protest a new govt, you just do it. "They welcomed criminals" you say... like Russian examples? Bullshit. Just Rus propaganda. Ukraine is just chalk full of criminals but the Russian conscience is as clean as freshly laundered white linen, yeah okay.

You say this war is BS. Yet in the past you've said that the reasons for the war are justified. So what's BS in your opinion, the reasons for it, or the war being launched itself. Which?

Are you absolutely sure thats what I said? Because if you do, show me where. Otherwise you are lier. Or are you going to say - you didn't understand me again because my English is that bad?

Ukraine is just chalk full of criminals but the Russian conscience is as clean as freshly laundered white linen, yeah okay

Where did I say that? Your mind playing games with you?

Military service is not for everyone regardless of the "reasons" or justification for war. Yeah, a lot of Ukrainian men left the country to avoid conscription. They had their reasons as do Russian men. I don't really blame them.

So would you call those Ukrainians who ran away smart? Did you know that unlike Russian men who ran away Ukranian had to pay from $1000 to $10000 to Ukrainian customer officers? What would you say about Russians who did that?

[Faust]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...63Q0YG20100427

If you read reuters then it was western backed Ukrainian nationalists that did the coup

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

“What we, the west, have been saying for many years was actually Russian propaganda”

I keep hearing from the Soviet corner that "Nationalist" Ukrainians committed a "coup" and that they "took" power. Laugh.

Looks like you are in the “Soviet corner” now Boneface lol

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

Typical "west is not responsible for anything"

On your checklist first mark will be - Ukrainian. So what now?

Explain your curiosity since I don't support this war.
I have nothing in common with Baltics I told you many times, why you keep bringing that up.

All the people who live in south Eastern Ukraine are Russians? This is beyond stupid, ill tell you that

Typical "typical west is not responsible for anything" response.
It's almost like a mantra :D

If someone checks that they are Ukrainian then that's it. They understand that they live in Ukraine...follow its laws and respect Ukrainian borders....just like people in all other countries.

"I have nothing in common with Baltics I told you many times, why do you keep bringing that up."

Why?

Because we have exactly the same "problem" with Russia as Ukraine has.
We are neighbors of Russia with a large population of Russians who were sent here to dilute the local population and Russify these lands permanently. Russia is trying to keep both countries in its sphere of influence and dictate our politics. Just like in Ukraine, Russia has accused the Baltics of "discriminating against Russians" and in Estonia, they tried to pull off a coup of some kind in 2007, during the "bronze night". A lot of Russian "protesters" were shipped in from Russia and Russian propaganda ministry was working overtime pushing for the conflict. A Russian state-sponsored cyber attack was organized against Estonia, which at the time was one of the largest cyber attacks against a country ever. Everything was set for a "Ukraine-style" coup to begin.
There is almost no chance at all, that the "protests" in donbass were not funded and supported by Russia. None. It was not "the will of the people" but Russian propaganda and state-funded actors who were pushing for the conflict.
Again, if people in eastern Ukraine felt like they were Russians, then they should have moved to Russia, and Russia should have sponsored them. Half a million Russians who escaped mobilization showed that moving to another country isn't that big of a deal...especially if the other country is right next doos and you believe it to be better than the country you currently live in.

The problem is simple.
Instead of Russia coming to people...people should go to Russia.
Its that simple.
Its that logical.
It has zero conflict.
Its win win for everyone.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...63Q0YG20100427

If you read reuters then it was western backed Ukrainian nationalists that did the coup

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720

“What we, the west, have been saying for many years was actually Russian propaganda”






Looks like you are in the “Soviet corner” now Boneface lol

This is not secret that west supported this fuckers. Called them fucking true opposition and freedom flag carriers. Fuck that! This bunch of douchbags are nasty and deserve a life sentence for their crime against SouthEstern Ukrainians. When I say "western support" I mean the way media was showing what was going on. CNN or FoxNews...dont matter what you watch or what your read... almost every single one of them was saying the same thing. There was a few bloggers and western journalists who said the truth and they were pretty much outcasts because you know, they didn't fit the narrative and their news were not what people were looking for. They were not looking for the truth , rather for what they want to hear/see, for what makes them feel better and what proves them being right. No coverage of how kids and families were getting killed in Donbas by UA army and NAZI battalions...instead " some pro Russian terrorists were killed by Ukrainian Army today" and everybody in the west " fuck yeah! go Ukraine". its hard for this prowesties group to even think about possibility that maybe, they were wrong all along since 2014. You can call it double standards or just being a hypocrite when you care about one Ukrainians and others dont deserve not only attention but even right to live.

[duntez]

Originally Posted by scorpion9 ↗

Typical "typical west is not responsible for anything" response.
It's almost like a mantra :D

If someone checks that they are Ukrainian then that's it. They understand that they live in Ukraine...follow its laws and respect Ukrainian borders....just like people in all other countries.

"I have nothing in common with Baltics I told you many times, why do you keep bringing that up."

Why?

Because we have exactly the same "problem" with Russia as Ukraine has.
We are neighbors of Russia with a large population of Russians who were sent here to dilute the local population and Russify these lands permanently. Russia is trying to keep both countries in its sphere of influence and dictate our politics. Just like in Ukraine, Russia has accused the Baltics of "discriminating against Russians" and in Estonia, they tried to pull off a coup of some kind in 2007, during the "bronze night". A lot of Russian "protesters" were shipped in from Russia and Russian propaganda ministry was working overtime pushing for the conflict. A Russian state-sponsored cyber attack was organized against Estonia, which at the time was one of the largest cyber attacks against a country ever. Everything was set for a "Ukraine-style" coup to begin.
There is almost no chance at all, that the "protests" in donbass were not funded and supported by Russia. None. It was not "the will of the people" but Russian propaganda and state-funded actors who were pushing for the conflict.
Again, if people in eastern Ukraine felt like they were Russians, then they should have moved to Russia, and Russia should have sponsored them. Half a million Russians who escaped mobilization showed that moving to another country isn't that big of a deal...especially if the other country is right next doos and you believe it to be better than the country you currently live in.

The problem is simple.
Instead of Russia coming to people...people should go to Russia.
Its that simple.
Its that logical.
It has zero conflict.
Its win win for everyone.

You fail to understand simple things seems like. Why my family being a Ukrainians need to leave UA, because they didn't support Maidan? Based on what you are saying any fucker who illegally takes power has a right above all and those who dissagry needs to get the fuck out? What a nonsense! So if pro Trumpies managed to take power when they stormed the capitol you really think all Americans would bow to this new goverment? Because government dictates who you are and who you are suppose to be? Because half or even if more than half of USA supported that shit? I highly doubt that. I think states would raise and stand their ground. Would fucking take weapons and go on Washington if, IF they had power to do so.

Baltics and Ukraine are absolutely two different things. Dont even try to compare. Just for this single fact I can say that you dont know what you are talking about.

[scorpion9]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

You fail to understand simple things seems like. Why my family being a Ukrainians need to leave UA, because they didn't support Maidan? Based on what you are saying any fucker who illegally takes power has a right above all and those who disagree needs to get the fuck out? What a nonsense! So if pro Trumpies managed to take power when they stormed the capitol you really think all Americans would bow to this new goverment? Because government dictates who you are and who you are suppose to be? Because half or even if more than half of USA supported that shit? I highly doubt that. I think states would raise and stand their ground. Would fucking take weapons and go on Washington if, IF they had power to do so.

Baltics and Ukraine are absolutely two different things. Don't even try to compare. Just for this single fact I can say that you don't know what you are talking about.

"Why my family being a Ukrainians need to leave UA, because they didn't support Maidan?"
They don't...that's it.
You make it sound like Maidan was an attempt to send east Ukrainians into concentration camps or something.
It would have had almost no real effect on people living in Donbass. Whatever effect it would have had would have been nothing compared to what Russia is doing with its war.
Just imagine a parallel world in which a corrupt politician who lied and backpedaled on his promises was deposed by its people and a new one was elected. Imagine that people in Donbass did nothing and just kept going to their work and living their life as they always had. How much worse would their life have been now, compared to their life now at war?


"Based on what you are saying any fucker who illegally takes power has a right above all and those who disagree, need to get the fuck out?"

No, not any fucker. It wasn't a "single fucker" who took power for no reason. It was a massive amount of people, who fought for what they were promised. If a politician promised one thing during the campaign and then did something completely different...then they must be held accountable, and an event like Maidan is justified...and good. Every western nation should protest and depose politicians that backtrack on their promises. This would make democratically elected officials accountable to their people.

Without Russian funding and efforts...this war would not have happened.
People in Donbas would just live their life as they had always done and that would be it. After 1 election cycle, they would get another president and another government.