[Rfneimad]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Yup Russia lost. Ukraine does not need an army, also no nukes, tactical or not, they don’t need NATO membership, they don’t need Donbas, they don’t need Lugansk, they don’t even need Crimea.

Ukraine didn’t lose anything. And Russia has already lost everything.
#OSINT

I'm gonna judge war from here on out who causes the most sad people, so I think if we took a poll right now more people are sad cause of shit Russia did.

And whatever happens in the short term militarily is going to pale in comparison of the shit storm that is going to happen to them in the future.

Putin is actually doing good in that weird Japanese anime way of being such a douchebag it brings out the best in all of us. I think that was one of the Patlabor movies.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by Rfneimad ↗

I'm gonna judge war from here on out who causes the most sad people, so I think if we took a poll right now more people are sad cause of shit Russia did.

And whatever happens in the short term militarily is going to pale in comparison of the shit storm that is going to happen to them in the future.

Putin is actually doing good in that weird Japanese anime way of being such a douchebag it brings out the best in all of us. I think that was one of the Patlabor movies.

Those were very good! Second one had a very chill vibe, need to rewatch that.

I am sad that humans are dying, civilians or Azov or even Russia. I was also sad seeing those afghan children, orphans? Playing in the fucking mud and still smiling though their country got fucked so hard, even without occupational forces.
People here demonstrating in the streets not to take the refugees..

But I believe that the actions in this conflict were escalated and well warned about by all academics. You know this, especially if you watched the good anime

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Everything you ever copy and pasted regarding this subject is a basic variation of what I already explained.

EDIT: apologies... for some reason I was confused and thought Whiskey had said this to me. Hence my response below. I don't know how to delete it so I leave this edit to clarify. lol

lol... yeah, I've seen that. BTW, what I wrote wasn't copied and pasted. I actually did research and summarized what I read. Mostly from Wiki... but I get nervous with any and all sources. You never know for sure how reliable any of it is. None of who wrote any of it was around back when it all happened.

If only we had a time machine. hehehe

[Rfneimad]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

Those were very good! Second one had a very chill vibe, need to rewatch that.

I am sad that humans are dying, civilians or Azov or even Russia. I was also sad seeing those afghan children, orphans? Playing in the fucking mud and still smiling though their country got fucked so hard, even without occupational forces.
People here demonstrating in the streets not to take the refugees..

But I believe that the actions in this conflict were escalated and well warned about by all academics. You know this, especially if you watched the good anime

I totally thought 9/11 was like that bridge dude blew up, then the weed wore off of course.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by Faust ↗

WonderMomma TLDR.. just kidding good points though still coloured at least you put in more effort then most other posters combined. I respect your opinion even though I have a different perspective.

As for first blood; people look for reasons to validate their original point of view. X is bad so event 1 must have been X’s doing.

It become too hypothetical. Imagine you speak hood/Ebonics. Now the US government prohibits it, they also disband all African-American centred political parties.
Your people proclaim the new Africa autonomous region.

To you that is strive for independence and to keep your identity.

The US would view you as a terrorist group that must be eliminated. They will make sure the world will view you as such.
It is not even in the global news that your political parties were banned from the government, the entire world will hate you and think it is justified that your ghettos, KFCs, watermelon fields and basketball courts are shelled by artillery for years.

I leave out the fact that Mexico is supplying arms to the new Africa republic because they want cheaper trade and a weaker US economy

I agree with people looking for reasons for everything...

I don't think I would use your choice of words in your analogy, however. lol

A bit too racially stereotyped for my liking. But I get the gist, I think.

But I have a very "free spirited", very primal and simple humanity based frame of thinking. I like to see everyone as human first, concentrate on those commonalities to get to know who someone really is. Not focus so much on the differences straight from the start. That gives a chance for some kind of relatable rapport to build.

Thank you for the respect. It's nice to have calm discussions with people who don't share my views.

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Just watch some pissed off Russian oligarch pay off a few bodyguards who put a 20lb package of Semtex under Putin's seat in his car.

Now that would cause all sorts of mayhem in itself, opportunistic Russian politicians would be frothing at the mouth to take control... civil war?

[WhiskeyOutpost]

Interesting animation of the push and pull of territorial gains.

[WonderMomma]

Originally Posted by duntez ↗

Donbas never was Ukranian to begin with. Those lands were occupied by Tatars and other Turkic people. After Russian/Turkish war and piece agreement all near Azov sea lands became Russian Empire territory.
Also, not only Russia fought for this lands, but also built cities, infrastructure and so on including protection. For instance big city Dnepr used to be Ekaterinoslav ( Founded by Ekaterina the Great and meant to be the 3rd capitol of Russian Empire). And this city hundreds miles to the west of Donbas. The reason why there are so many Ukranians is obvious, for the same reason why Texas, Cali, Florida have the most Latino people. This is neighboring territory. Now, if Russian Empire fought for this lands and won, later fought for this lands to protect how come they became Ukranian lands? If we r going to follow your logic, then Donbas should be Turkish territory. But we all know during those times territory wars were normal and conquered lands were recognized by the world. BTW there were at least two times when Kozaks asked Russian Empire to protect them from Polish Empire and Turks.
For the most part future Ukranians occupied mid Ukraine territories. Modern Ukraine in the west - lands of Poland and Hungary.

You know, In the 18th century Russia wanted to populate Far East territories, since there were no roads the only way to get there was the sea. So people from Odessa and other close by cities went on a journey , they were promised big chunks of land. Which those who made it there did receive it. With this being said if you look into statistics of who used to live there before Russian Empire went to history you will find out 90% were Ukranians. But it dosnt mean that they were there always and it is their territory.

So I say it again, don’t matter how old Kyev is, what matters is new government who broke constitution by overthrowing legitimate president, broke constitutional law again when they sent an army to deal with their own citizens who did not want to recognize this people who became into power.

And BTW just like ex Prime Minister of Australia said - I do not support an invasion. But I understand the reasons.

Thank you for this knowledge. It really is extremely complicated.

As a "white" American, with English/Irish and Cherokee heritage... like all of the rest of people who are anything but full blooded Native American... "my" lands are not really mine either. It's hard to define who deserves/has rights to what when there are so many grey areas and soooo many variables.

Technically, America should belong to Native Americans. But in reality it doesn't based on events in modern history.

Muddy waters, indeed.

Things would be much more simple if things were perceived and handled much more on a human to human level, but I know that's very delusional wishful thinking.

But I will continue to have sympathy, empathy for all of the humans suffering and dying during this and any conflict regardless of their background. While still being very cynical, mindful, and painfully aware of the powers that be that are ultimately to blame for said suffering and dying regardless of their background.

I don't agree with what Putin and the RF are doing, how they are doing it in this specific situation. But I am also ignorant to being Russian or Ukrainian and being directly involved in it and living it. I just know people are suffering and dying on both sides under fucked up circumstances when there should be/could be alternatives, and Russia seems to be the aggressor in my view.

Again, I appreciate the civil dialog more than I can convey.

[ride]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

Again, I appreciate the civil dialog more than I can convey.

[Faust]

Originally Posted by WonderMomma ↗

I agree with people looking for reasons for everything...

I don't think I would use your choice of words in your analogy, however. lol

A bit too racially stereotyped for my liking. But I get the gist, I think.

But I have a very "free spirited", very primal and simple humanity based frame of thinking. I like to see everyone as human first, concentrate on those commonalities to get to know who someone really is. Not focus so much on the differences straight from the start. That gives a chance for some kind of relatable rapport to build.

Thank you for the respect. It's nice to have calm discussions with people who don't share my views.

Sorry in hindsight the example was maybe too racially stereotyped.
Btw my copy and paste comment was aimed at Whiskey, not you. I understood you wrote in your own words what you researched, which is excellent. if all people did that then there was less suffering in the world or at the very least more understanding