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Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD? 

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:06 PM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

Nurnburg to Budapest on the blue Danube, i can't wait!

And where's my personalized picture?

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Old 01-27-2013, 01:04 AM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

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Originally Posted by katarina77 View Post
fuck communism. stalin is one of the worst people in history. killing millions of his own people, and treating german pows like shit. last pow returned home over 10 years after ww2.
Fuck communism? lol, when most ppl think of communism, they automatically link it with Russia, North Korean, and China etc. These countries are poor representations of what communism is all about and they twist and manipulate the ideologies to suit their own needs.

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:59 PM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

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Originally Posted by thecuriousgeorge View Post
Fuck communism? lol, when most ppl think of communism, they automatically link it with Russia, North Korean, and China etc. These countries are poor representations of what communism is all about and they twist and manipulate the ideologies to suit their own needs.
Agreed, China has fuck all to do with communism today.

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:55 PM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

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We're not all neo Nazis and rapists!
Yeah, right.....

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Old 01-27-2013, 11:54 PM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

Red Army Rape: The Fate of German Women in WWII

Source: http://incredibleimages4u.blogspot.c...man-women.html
Below is an account of the mass rape in 1945 of German women by the Russians. The eyewitness was an ace Luftwaffe pilot, Erich Hartmann. The following narrative is an adaption from his biography, The Blond Knight of Germany: A biography of Erich Hartmann by Raymond Toliver and Trevor Constable


Half-drunk Red Army soldiers, armed with rifles and machine guns, made unarmed Germans stand in rows. Other Russians forced women and girls to lie on the ground, tore off their clothes and began raping them. The male Germans could only silently clench their fists. U.S. soldiers from their truck looked on at all this with eyes wide open.


It seemed that they were simply paralyzed by the spectacle. When two young German girls, stripped naked, shouting all the time rushed to the truck and in desperation began to climb on it the American guards pulled them up. The Russians did not like this. Firing wildly into the air and shouting, they rushed to the American truck. The U.S. soldiers quickly readied their guns, and the truck raced away across the road. When it had disappeared, the Russian soldiers attacked the German women again.


A young German woman, a little over thirty, mother of a 12-year-old girl, knelt at the feet of a Russian corporal and prayed to God that the Soviet soldiers take her, and not the girl. But her prayers went unanswered. Tears streamed down her cheeks as she kept praying.


The Russian corporal walked away from the woman, his face contorted into a mocking grin. One of the soldiers hit the woman on the face with his boot. "Damned fascist pig!", he yelled. The young mother fell on her back. The soldier who had hit her, shot her in the head and killed her.


The Russians seized all the German women who were visible. The little daughter of the murdered woman was dragged behind a tank by the killer of her mother. He was joined by other Russians. For half an hour rang out wild screams and moans. Then, completely naked, the girl, unable to stand on his feet, crept back.


However, in the overall picture of the atrocities, the suffering of the girl was not anything special. The helpless German men tried to persuade the Russian guards to allow them to help the girl. Rifle at the ready, the Russian allowed a German medic to attend to the girl. An hour later she died, and her last sobs burned the hearts of Hartmann and his soldiers.


8 and 9-year-old girls were being repeatedly raped mercilessly by a brutalized Russian military. They showed no other feelings other than hatred and lust. Until all the monsters had satisfied themselves amongst the wild screams and wailing of women, Erich and his soldiers were under the muzzles of guns.


Spattered with blood, the Russian, lust satisfied, took over the covering of German soldiers. Mothers tried to protect their daughters, but they were beaten unconscious and dragged to the side, and then raped in that state. Even though Eric was a battle-hardened pilot, who had fought in hundreds of missions and who had received many wounds was struck in the heart by what he saw. By a superhuman effort of will he fought down an attack of vomiting.


Such an orgy just could not go on for long. Lust was sated, and began to appear the first signs of pity. Sometimes smiling, sometimes indifferent, sometimes a little depressed, Russian soldiers returned the women and girls. Those who were dragged away from the truck, nobody saw them again. Others fell unconscious in the arms of shaken fathers and husbands.


The Germans were herded into a makeshift camp in a meadow. They were allowed to go to the lake to wash and wash clothes. Then around the meadow was built a ring of 30 tanks to organize security for the night. Russian soldiers came again and again to the German women. The violence continued throughout the night, and stopped just before dawn. Women stumbled back, like broken dolls, after the Russian had satisfied themselves. Soldiers of JG-52 Squadron, which served E. Hartmann, had to make hard choices, and many of them made it.


When the first rays of the sun fell on the meadow surrounded by tanks, many Germans did not rise. Those who woke up, found themselves in a terrible realm of death, which was etched in red-hot iron in their memories forever. When Eric woke up, he saw a German sergeant with his wife and daughter lying beside him. The sergeant's wife quietly cut the veins of her hands with a homemade knife. Then he just killed his 11-year-old daughter, and then cut his own vein . Life slowly went away from them, while Eric lay nearby watching.


Other men strangled their wives and daughters and then hanged themselves on the sides of trucks. They preferred to die slowly and painfully. Erich began quietly talking to himself, to overcome the terrible effects of the bloody scenes in the mind. "You must live, Erich. You must survive to tell others about what happened. You can never forget what happens when man falls below any animal".

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:12 AM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

One young officer coming upon a unit that had overtaken a column of German refugees fleeing westward later recalled: ‘Women, mothers and their children lie to the right and left along the route, and in front of each of them stands a raucous armada of men with their trousers down. The women who are bleeding or losing consciousness get shoved to one side, and our men shoot the ones who try to save their children.’ A group of ‘grinning’ officers was standing near by, making sure ‘that every soldier without exception would take part’.

Women and girls were subjected to serial rape wherever they were encountered. Rape was often accompanied by torture and mutilation and frequently ended in the victim being shot or bludgeoned to death. The raging violence was undiscriminating. Often, especially in Berlin, women were deliberately raped in the presence of their menfolk, to underline the humiliation.The men were usually killed if they tried to intervene. In East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia it is thought that around 1,400,000 women were raped, a good number of them several times. Gang-rapes were the norm rather than the exception. The two largest Berlin hospitals estimated that at least 100,000 women had been raped in the German capital. Many caught a sexually transmitted disease, and not a few fell pregnant; the vast majority of the latter obtained an abortion, or, if they did give birth, abandoned their baby in hospital. The sexual violence went on for many weeks, even after the war formally came to an end. German women learned to hide, especially after dark; or, if they were young, to take a Soviet soldier, preferably an officer, as a lover and protector. On 4 May 1945 an anonymous Berlin woman wrote in her diary: ‘Slowly but surely we’re starting to view all the raping with a sense of humour -gallows humour.’

She noted with a certain satisfaction that the Russian soldiers tended to prefer plump and well-fed women as their victims after the initial fury was over, and that these, unsurprisingly, were usually the wives of Nazi Party functionaries.



From The Third Reich At War by RICHARD J. EVANS


A picture in Stalinskoe znamia, the Stalingrad Front newspaper, on 8 September showed a frightened girl with herlimbs bound. 'What if your beloved girl is tied up like this by fascists?' said the caption. 'First they'll rape her insolently, then throw her under a tank. Advance warrior. Shoot the enemy. Your duty is to prevent the violator from raping your girl.' Such propaganda- almost a repeat of the theme in Konstantin Simonov's poem 'Kill Him!' - was undoubtedly crude, yet its symbolism closely reflected the mood of the time. AlexeySurkov's poem 'I Hate' was equally ferocious. The German violation of the Motherland could only be wiped out with bloody revenge.
(From Stalingrad, A Fateful Siege By ANTONY BEEVOR)

The hatred against the Germans was stoked by such propaganda during the Battle Of Stalingrad and was one of the reasons for the mass rape that followed as the Russian army entered German territory.


Below is an account of the mass rape in1945.
The pattern, with soldiers flashing torches in the faces of women huddled in the bunkers to select their victims, appears to have been common to all the Soviet armies involved in the Berlin operation.

This process of selection, as opposed to the immediate violence shown in East Prussia, indicates a definite change. By this stage Soviet soldiers treated German women much more as sexual spoils of war than as substitutes for the Wehrmacht on which to vent their rage. Rape has often been defined by writers on the subject as an act of violence which has little to do with sex. But that is a definition from the victim's perspective. To understand the crime, however, one needs to see things from the perpetrator's point of view,especially in this second stage when unaggravated rape had succeeded the extreme onslaught of January and February.

The soldiers concerned appear to have felt that they were satisfying a sexual need after all their time at the front. In this most soldier rapists did not demonstrate gratuitous violence, provided the woman did not resist. A third stage in the process, and even a fourth, developed in the weeks to come, as will be seen.

But the basic point is that, in war, undisciplined soldiers without fear of retribution can rapidly revert to a primitive male sexuality, perhaps even the sort which biologists ascribe to a compulsion on the part of the male of the species to spread his seed as widely as possible. The difference between the incoherent violence in East Prussia and the notion of carnal booty in Berlin underlines the fact that there can be no all-embracing definition of the crime. On the other hand, it tends to suggest that there is a dark area of male sexuality which can emerge all too easily, especially in war, when there are no social and disciplinary restraints. Much also depends on the military culture of a particular national army.

From Berlin Downfall 1945 by ANTONY BEEVOR



VIDEOS






Source: Daily Mail
Stalin's army of rapists: The brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore
By Andrew Roberts

The movie, A Woman In Berlin, is based on the diary of the German journalist Marta Hillers

A German girl walks past Soviet troops in a scene from A Woman In Berlin

Marta was one of two million German women who were raped by soldiers of the Red Army - in her case, as in so many others, several times over.

It was a feature of Russia's 'liberation' and occupation of eastern Germany at the end of World War II that is familiar enough to historians, but which neither country cares to acknowledge took place on anything like the scale it did.

For Russia, the episode besmirches the fine name of the Red Army that had fought so hard and suffered so much in its four-year campaign against the Wehrmacht.

The courage and resilience of the ordinary Russian in what they called the Great Patriotic War is incontestable, and for every five German soldiers killed in action in the whole of World War II, four died on the Eastern Front.

Yet the knowledge that the victorious Red Army committed mass rape across Prussia and eastern Germany as they closed in on Berlin degrades its reputation, which is unacceptable to many Russians today.

***********************************
VIDEO: GERMAN NEWSREEL MARCH 1945
The Mass Rape Had Already Begun......



*******************************

When the historian Antony Beevor wrote about it in his book Berlin: The Downfall, the Russian ambassador to London, Grigory Karasin, accused him of 'an act of blasphemy', saying: 'It is a slander against the people who saved the world from Nazism.'

Similarly, living Germans do not want the events that humiliated and violated them, their mothers and grandmothers to be held up to public examination, as this movie promises to do.

For many German women, the memory was something they sublimated and never spoke about to their husbands returning from the front.

It was the great unmentionable fact of 1945, which is coming out not just in history books, but in front of a mass, international audience. Painful memories of gross sexual abuse are being dragged out and held up to the pitiless witness of the silver screen.

Furthermore for the Germans, there is also the added sense that had it not been for Operation Barbarossa, Hitler's invasion of the USSR, these crimes would never have been committed against German womanhood in the first place.

Three million German troops crossed the Soviet border in June 1941 in an attempt to extirpate the Russian state, and the Nazi commitment to

Total War produced atrocities so terrible that they were bound to be avenged once the Red Army reached German soil.

As so often in war, it was to be defenceless women, girls and even elderly ladies who were to pay in pain and outrage for the crimes of their male compatriots.

Many had abortions or were treated for the syphilis they caught. And as for the so-called Russenbabies - the children born out of rape - many were abandoned.

In his fine new book, World War Two: Behind Closed Doors, the historian Laurence Rees points out that although rape was officially a crime in the Red Army, in fact, Stalin explicitly condoned it as a method of rewarding the soldiers and terrorising German civilians.

Stalin said people should ' understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle'.

On another occasion, when told that Red Army soldiers sexually maltreated German refugees, he said: 'We lecture our soldiers too much; let them have their initiative.'

With all the young men killed German women were easy pickings for revenging Russians

While Stalin condoned rape as an instrument of state military policy, his police chief Lavrenti Beria was a serial rapist.

An American diplomat, Beria's bodyguard and the Russian actress Tatiana Okunevskaya all bore witness of his methods of grabbing women off the street and shoving them into his limousine and then his bed.

'You are a long way from anywhere, so whether you scream or not does not matter,' Beria would tell the women when he got them back to his dacha. 'You are in my power now. So think about that and behave accordingly.'

More than 100 school-aged girls and young women were drugged and raped by the man who ran the



NKVD, the feared forerunner to the KGB.

'All of which means, of course, that if reports of Red Army soldiers raping women in eastern Europe were sent to the NKVD in Moscow, they finally reached the desk of a rapist himself,' says Rees.

The rape of Berlin's female population - anyone between the ages of 13 and 70 was in danger - was cruelly vicious.

In one heart-breaking incident, a Berlin lawyer, who had somehow protected his Jewish wife from persecution throughout the Nazi period, was shot trying to protect her from rape by Red Army soldiers. As he lay dying of his wounds, he saw his wife being gang-raped.

'They do not speak a word of Russian, but that makes it easier,' one Red Army soldier wrote in a letter home in February 1945. 'You don't have to persuade them. You just point a revolver and tell them to lie down. Then you do your stuff and go away.'

It was unusual for Red Army soldiers to admit to rape in letters home, which is why this new German film is likely to shock Russian patriotic sensibilities.

Nor did the Germany's surrender calm the Russians' behaviour, at least in the short term.

'Weeks before you entered this house, its tenants were living in constant fright and fear,' the rich German publisher Hans-Dietrich Muller Grote wrote to President Truman about the place he stayed in during the Potsdam conference of July 1945.

'By day and by night, plundering Russian soldiers went in and out, raping my sisters before their own parents and children, beating up my old parents. All furniture, wardrobes and trunks were smashed with bayonets and rifle butts, their contents soiled and destroyed in an indescribable manner.'

Red Army troops in procession in Berlin, Germany. Their atrocities against the women were carried out in a sickeningly systematic manner

The Red Army's atrocities against women in Dresden in the spring of 1945, a city that had already suffered heavily from Allied bombing, were carried out in a sickeningly systematic manner.

'In the house next to ours, Soviet troops went in and pulled the women on to the street, had their mattresses pulled out and raped the women,' recalled one inhabitant, John Noble.

'The men had to watch, and then the men were shot. Right at the end of the street, a woman was tied to a wagon wheel and terribly misused.


'Of course, you had the feeling that you wanted to stop it, but there was no possibility to do that.' Women going to and from work past Red Army pickets were routinely raped.

The historian Chris Bellamy believes that although there are no surviving written records to prove it, 'the hideous spectre of multiple rape was not only condoned, but, we can be pretty sure, legally sanctioned by the political officers speaking for the Soviet government'.

Nor is it true that rape was mainly carried out by reserve units following behind the front-line troops.

The Russian war correspondent Vassily Grossman was embedded with the elite front-line Eighth Guards Army which committed rape, as did at least one of his own war correspondent colleagues.

As well as the estimated two million rapes in Germany, there were between 70,000 and 100,000 in Vienna and anywhere from 50,000 to 200,000 in Hungary, as well as thousands in Romania and Bulgaria, which had been pro-Nazi, but also in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, which had not been.

Indeed, as Beevor points out, the Red Army even raped Russian women who had been liberated from concentration camps, emaciated and wearing their prison uniform.

Overall, however, Russian soldiers tended to prefer plumper and better-fed women, and one diarist recorded the satisfaction felt by some Berlin women that these tended to be the wives of Nazi Party functionaries.

Vodka played a role, of course, but the worst of the behaviour was fuelled by sheer hatred and aggression, as well as a cold-hearted sense of deterrence for the future.


'It's absolutely clear that if we don't really scare them now, there will be no way of avoiding another war in future,' one Red Army soldier wrote at the time.

In a recently published book by the Professor of Modern History at Cambridge, Richard Evans, a young Russian officer is quoted recalling how when his unit overtook a column of fleeing German refugees: 'Women, mothers and their children lie to the right and left along the route, and in front of each of them stands a raucous armada of men with their trousers down.

The women, who are bleeding or losing consciousness, get shoved to one side, and our men shoot the ones who try to save their children.'

A group of 'grinning' officers ensured that 'every soldier without exception would take part'.

Evans records: 'Rape was often accompanied by torture and mutilation and frequently ends in the victim being shot or bludgeoned to death. The raging violence was undiscriminating.'

The insistence on the men watching the rapes was deliberate policy, intended 'to underline the humiliation'.

Underlying all this foul inhumanity was the way the German Army and its allies had behaved during its invasion of Russia.

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:29 AM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

Another account in regards to US soldiers activities in Germany from "WikiPedia"

In Taken by Force, J. Robert Lilly estimates the number of rapes committed by U.S. servicemen in Germany to be 11,040.[50] As in the case of the American occupation of France after the D-Day invasion, many of the American rapes in Germany in 1945 were gang rapes committed by armed soldiers at gunpoint.[51]

Although non-fraternization policies were instituted for the Americans in Germany, the phrase "copulation without conversation is not fraternization" was used as a motto by United States Army troops.[52] The journalist Osmar White, a war correspondent from Australia who served with the American troops during the war, wrote that

After the fighting moved on to German soil, there was a good deal of rape by combat troops and those immediately following them. The incidence varied between unit and unit according to the attitude of the commanding officer. In some cases offenders were identified, tried by court martial, and punished. The army legal branch was reticent, but admitted that for brutal or perverted sexual offences against German women, some soldiers had been shot – particularly if they happened to be Negroes. Yet I know for a fact that many women were raped by white Americans. No action was taken against the culprits. In one sector a report went round that a certain very distinguished army commander made the wisecrack, 'Copulation without conversation does not constitute fraternisation.'[53]

A typical victimization with sexual assault by drunken American personnel marching through occupied territory involved threatening a German family with weapons, forcing one or more women to engage in sex, and putting the entire family out on the street afterward.[52]

As in the eastern sector of the occupation, the number of rapes peaked in 1945, but a high rate of violence against the German and Austrian populations by the Americans lasted at least into the first half of 1946, with five cases of dead German women found in American barracks in May and June of 1946 alone.[51]

Carol Huntington writes that the American soldiers who raped German women and then left gifts of food for them may have permitted themselves to view the act as a prostitution rather than rape. Citing the work of a Japanese historian alongside this suggestion, Huntington writes that Japanese women who begged for food "were raped and soldiers sometimes left food for those they raped."[51]

The black soldiers of America's segregated occupation force were both more likely to be charged with rape and severely punished.[51] Heide Fehrenbach writes that, while the American black soldiers were in fact by no means free from indiscipline,

The point, rather, is that American officials exhibited an explicit interest in a soldier's race, and then only if he were black, when reporting behavior they feared would undermine either the status or the political aims of the U.S. Military Government in Germany.[54]

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:37 AM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

According to "WikiPedia" the French also took part in the festivities:

French troops took part in the invasion of Germany, and France was assigned an occupation zone in Germany. According to Perry Biddiscombe the French for instance committed "385 rapes in the Constance area; 600 in Bruchsal; and 500 in Freudenstadt."[55] The soldiers of France indulged in an orgy of rape in the Höfingen District near Leonberg.[56]

According to Norman Naimark French Moroccan troops matched the behavior of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg.[57]

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Old 02-02-2013, 05:51 PM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

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Originally Posted by Tiffany32 View Post
Well my point is if Hitler didn't invade Poland in 1939 none of the stuff we're talking about now would have transpired, all of those rapes wouldn't have happened or the massive killings and all the deaths associated with this horrible war. The German people bare some of the guilt too IMO, because without their support there would Never have been a Hitler ! I feel for the ordeals of the woman and children in Nazi Germany at the end of the war but Hitler started World War II and the German people were the one's that paid the price..and a dear price they paid.
Yeah well in a perfect world.....in a perfect world wed all get paid in trident layers. but this isint a perfect world and every gove is going to be doing fucked up atrocities to another group of people.

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Old 02-04-2013, 04:11 AM
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Re: Was Russian Rape in Germany This BAD?

They said the Nazis that were in China during the rape of Nanking were feeling sorry about the barbarism going on there. No one seems to know these days about what went on there.

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