[30564U]

Yup...I gotta say that I really thought he had a dark handgun in his hands. In all honesty, in the same circumstance, I would have probably shot him as well. I watched the video several times and each time it looked exactly like he had a handgun when her turned around.

I can guess exactly how his lawyer will defend this...and it may be true. I bet that the officer had in his recent history, an incident very similar to this one, except the guy did have a gun and either shot him or tried to shoot him. The officer (like lots of us who've experienced shootings first hand) probably suffers from undiagnosed PTSD. Highway patrol officers see a lot of really bad stuff...in fact, way more than most municipal police officers...and don't forget that usually patrol/work alone. I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet this officer has been in a prior shooting or two...he seemed a little fast and a bit paranoid.

What I used to do on traffic stops, was give the motorist very specific and slow instructions. When I approached either the driver's or passenger's window, I very briefly introduced myself and asked them if they had a driver license and proof of insurance. Usually they would lunge at either the glove box, their purse, or start digging for their wallet. I'd firmly tell them to stop moving and to tell me where exactly in the car or on their person their driver license and proof of insurance was located. It's real important to gain control and maintain that control throughout the stop. This guy should have slowed down, taken up a defensive position of cover and told the guy to get back in the car, turn off the car, and put his hands on the steering wheel. You don't need to make it a SWAT call out, but you need to slow down, maintain control, and remain calm. Traffic stops are a great way to educate folks, talk with folks, and work a little bit of positive PR. Most folks rarely come into contact with the police, so you need to make the citation (if you actually issue one) a professional, positive, and if possible pleasant experience. The biggest and most common mistake officers...especially traffic officers, make is rushing to make contact, failing to radio dispatch and run the license plate, and not maintaining control of the situation. If this copper had slowed down and gave better instructions...he probably would've avoided a bad/unnecessary shooting. I think the officer will get off criminally and will get his job back...but he's gonna get his ass sued off and his department's ass sued off (that means the local tax payers).

[30564U]

This is also in the Real Police Videos Section.

[Oswald2001]

Originally Posted by Kelseecat65 ↗

I realize they are trained to shoot if they believe they are in danger, but this guy did probably exactly what I would do, reached in to get the license, without thinking beyond that.

He didn't reach. He dove. Suspiciously.

Originally Posted by Kelseecat65 ↗

I think the officer reacted too quickly.
On the flip side though, how easily the guy could have pulled a gun off his front seat.

People that act spastic like this often kill cops.

Don't act like a cop killer.

Don't make a cop have to react that quickly.

The cop didn't have, like you and I, the luxury of forming an opinion over the last several days.

Originally Posted by Kelseecat65 ↗

A bit more verbal instructions would be helpful, from both sides.

The guy diving and acting like a cop killer didn't allow the cop the time to say anything.

[Oswald2001]

When cop killers dive for guns in their cars...it looks just like that guy diving in his car.

Idiot move.

Should have been shot under the circumstances.

[Kelseecat65]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

I think the action of the driver could be easily mistaken for diving in too his car for a weapon. It was more of a swift motion. Not so much a cautious retrieval of an item. Had he went for his wallet at a more casual pace, the officer would have had time to execute verbal safety commands.

Fires weren't shot till the driver turned around again swiftly, and had an object in his hand, from the officers position the wallet could have easily been visually mistook for a barrel of a small arms.

I agree...that's what makes this so tough. I can see both sides. I would hope that if I were ever stopped, I would not mindlessly go to grab my wallet etc like that, without thinking or saying "I'm getting my wallet..I'm turning around!!"

[Kelseecat65]

Originally Posted by Oswald2001 ↗

He didn't reach. He dove. Suspiciously.



People that act spastic like this often kill cops.

Don't act like a cop killer.

Don't make a cop have to react that quickly.

The cop didn't have, like you and I, the luxury of forming an opinion over the last several days.



The guy diving and acting like a cop killer didn't allow the cop the time to say anything.

Jake's dad is a police officer of almost 20 years and I used to dispatch at the 911 center...so 99% of the time, I am pro cop, simply because I see the side that the public does not, or I understand it from a different perspective. Once in a while I question the officer's behavior. This one can go both ways, and I'm kind of shocked the way the department reacted to be honest.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by Kelseecat65 ↗

Jake's dad is a police officer of almost 20 years and I used to dispatch at the 911 center...so 99% of the time, I am pro cop, simply because I see the side that the public does not, or I understand it from a different perspective. Once in a while I question the officer's behavior. This one can go both ways, and I'm kind of shocked the way the department reacted to be honest.

That is why I think they are acting on worry of racial outcry if they ruled this a human error.....tbh on BOTH parts.

[Kelseecat65]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

That is why I think they are acting on worry of racial outcry if they ruled this a human error.....tbh on BOTH parts.

True. The last thing they want is a repeat of all the insanity in Ferguson. I was talking to Jake's dad the other day about Jake's wish to follow in his dads footsteps. Its only 8th grade, but they are already choosing college courses to take in high school.
Jake's dad and I are 110% against Jake becoming an officer. It's not the same as it once was and the scum out there that will take out a cop for no reason except to, it's just not worth the risk. Each time something like this happens, we both point it out to him and hope that he just ends up at Purdue for engineering!

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by 30564U ↗

Yup...I gotta say that I really thought he had a dark handgun in his hands. In all honesty, in the same circumstance, I would have probably shot him as well. I watched the video several times and each time it looked exactly like he had a handgun when her turned around.

I can guess exactly how his lawyer will defend this...and it may be true. I bet that the officer had in his recent history, an incident very similar to this one, except the guy did have a gun and either shot him or tried to shoot him. The officer (like lots of us who've experienced shootings first hand) probably suffers from undiagnosed PTSD. Highway patrol officers see a lot of really bad stuff...in fact, way more than most municipal police officers...and don't forget that usually patrol/work alone. I'm just guessing here, but I'd bet this officer has been in a prior shooting or two...he seemed a little fast and a bit paranoid.

What I used to do on traffic stops, was give the motorist very specific and slow instructions. When I approached either the driver's or passenger's window, I very briefly introduced myself and asked them if they had a driver license and proof of insurance. Usually they would lunge at either the glove box, their purse, or start digging for their wallet. I'd firmly tell them to stop moving and to tell me where exactly in the car or on their person their driver license and proof of insurance was located. It's real important to gain control and maintain that control throughout the stop. This guy should have slowed down, taken up a defensive position of cover and told the guy to get back in the car, turn off the car, and put his hands on the steering wheel. You don't need to make it a SWAT call out, but you need to slow down, maintain control, and remain calm. Traffic stops are a great way to educate folks, talk with folks, and work a little bit of positive PR. Most folks rarely come into contact with the police, so you need to make the citation (if you actually issue one) a professional, positive, and if possible pleasant experience. The biggest and most common mistake officers...especially traffic officers, make is rushing to make contact, failing to radio dispatch and run the license plate, and not maintaining control of the situation. If this copper had slowed down and gave better instructions...he probably would've avoided a bad/unnecessary shooting. I think the officer will get off criminally and will get his job back...but he's gonna get his ass sued off and his department's ass sued off (that means the local tax payers).

I agree, Highway patrol deal with a ton more than regular sheriffs, and municipals. HPs are in many states more thoroughly trained to act on response, as you seen he ran to the drivers right side side to confuse the driver where his position was last, that would suggest to me that the COP genuinely thought the guy was up to no good. A shitty cop wouldn't have done that maneuvering, and nine times out of ten would just shit the guy in his back. In this case, like i said, shots were never shot until the driver fully turned around, exposing a very confusing object in his hand.

And just to note, he WAS in fact in a shooting just a year prior, decorated a hero even. So perhaps just high on his toes for any more incidents in his career.

[30564U]

Originally Posted by Kelseecat65 ↗

True. The last thing they want is a repeat of all the insanity in Ferguson. I was talking to Jake's dad the other day about Jake's wish to follow in his dads footsteps. Its only 8th grade, but they are already choosing college courses to take in high school.
Jake's dad and I are 110% against Jake becoming an officer. It's not the same as it once was and the scum out there that will take out a cop for no reason except to, it's just not worth the risk. Each time something like this happens, we both point it out to him and hope that he just ends up at Purdue for engineering!

Kel, I know just how you guys feel. I tell my girls all the time not to be street cops. But, on the other hand...there are a ton of law enforcement jobs that are investigatory in nature and only on rare occasions do they really mix it up with bad guys and even then it's preplanned. There's a great deal of high paying investigatory jobs out there...but he's got to get his Bachleor's degree first. Your state will have a number of agencies you've probably never even heard of that pay great, have law enforcement retirement, etc. Don't worry too much...he'll figure it out, just give him a little parental shove in the right direction.