[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I'm not convinced this air campaign will achieve anything that remotely resembles victory. Billions will be spent, and victory will not be ours.

When was there ever a victory in Iraq?

Tell me, what will it look like? How can we define it?

Even now, if ISIS is killed entirely ( which we all know will NEVER happen ) where will Iraq be next year? 5 years from now? 1 big happy democracy?

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I was against the war because this situation was guaranteed the day America invaded. This situation is why GW's dad left saddam in power.

This war was a was a war of CHOICE, not necessity.
You can blame whoever you want for not doing a good enough job of cleaning up the mess created by bush, but make no mistake who created this mess.

So do you just not care about Obama's intervention in Libya? In which he helped bring down a tyrant and left the nation in chaos. Now Libya is a terrorist breading ground and safe haven in civil war.

Notice how the media doesn't shed much light on this. But yet Libya carries all the same problems of Iraq but this mess can't be blamed on Bush.[/QUOTE]

I was completely against the Libya fiasco as well.
It accomplished absolutely nothing, besides the problems that you mentioned.
Ghadaffi willingly gave up his WMD programs, and was more a part of the world than ever before..... His downfall sent the message to all dictators that you are only safe if you develop a WMD program, because if you can do that NATO will probably leave you alone.

The funny thing is that Obama is as much of a hawk militarily as Bush, and either continued or expanded many of his policies, but for some reason this gets lost on die hard right wingers

[rob666]

Originally Posted by Blewvane ↗

The vast majority of the voting public don't understand what goes on in global politics to begin with, and the minority that do can't agree on the colour of shit. Dumbing down the information is one way to feed the public information explaining the reasons for government decisions, bending the truth is another.

I couldn't agree more.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

If Russia wanted Crimea? They did want it, and they took it by sending in troops..

Give me a fucking break

So what you are saying is Russia is incapable of taking Crimea by force

get the fuck outta here

[Mr Poo]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Give me a fucking break

So what you are saying is Russia is incapable of taking Crimea by force

get the fuck outta here

Huh?

I said Russia did take Crimea by force..

When you send in troops and heavy weaponry to annex a part of a souvenir country, that's taking it by force.

Are you drunk?

[niknik]

[quote =rob666;4434336]When was there ever a victory in Iraq? :facepa

Tell me, what will it look like? How can we define it?

EvwhatObaw, if ISIS is killed entirely ( which we all know will NEVER happen ) where will Iraq be next year? 5 years from now? 1 big happy democracy? [/quote]

When we defeated Iraq. And we gained control of their military and took control from the tyrant.

If Iraq is a free democracy in 50 years it will be because of American troops. And that's success. Fuck this instant gratification pipe dream. That was never realistic and was never promised by Bush.

But we'll never know now. Because Obama pulled out before Iraq was prepared to fend for itself. That's not even debatable based on the events that have occurred.

I can understand the people saying it all was a mistake and we shouldn't of gone there. But i can't understand people saying "so what Obama pulled the troops out. We shouldn't of been there anyway" Pulling the troops out at this point was just as bad if not worse than originally going in.

Now nobody knows what's going to happen. Not just in Iraq but the entire middle east.

[Mr Poo]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

When we defeated Iraq. And we gained control of their military and took control from the tyrant.

If Iraq is a free democracy in 50 years it will be because of American troops. And that's success. Fuck this instant gratification pipe dream. That was never realistic and was never promised by Bush.

But we'll never know now. Because Obama pulled out before Iraq was prepared to fend for itself. That's not even debatable based on the events that have occurred.

I can understand the people saying it all was a mistake and we shouldn't of gone there. But i can't understand people saying "so what Obama pulled the troops out. We shouldn't of been there anyway" Pulling the troops out at this point was just as bad if not worse than originally going in.

Now nobody knows what's going to happen. Not just in Iraq but the entire middle east.

Obama pulled out by Bushes original deadline, how does it fall onto his shoulders?

It's always a blame game with you..

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Horseshit.

Call it whatever you want, the cost to maintain a presence in a hostile nation on the other side of the world costs a lot of money, far far more than a friendly one such as Germany or Japan.

And no, no they don't pay a good portion of the cost, because if that was the case America wouldn't be 1.7 trillion in the hole from the whole Iraq fiasco.

You keep bringing up the cost of WAR, I am, and some others that concur, are saying a residual occupancy is not the same as war in cost.

And you call it hostile, but praise obama for calling it a stable and finished? make up your mind. Its only hostile now because we jumped the gun hauling ass out of there, thanks to obama. Are the far left people this dense everywhere?

And no its not bullshit about burying everything, I would know my dad is the safty medical director of the contractor that was assigned in getting that project done.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

Obama pulled out by Bushes original deadline, how does it fall onto his shoulders?

It's always a blame game with you..

that's a rich statement from an Obama supporter.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

Obama pulled out by Bushes original deadline, how does it fall onto his shoulders?

It's always a blame game with you..

Bush didn't give a time line. I realize you'll make up shit to defend Obama at all cost.

In late April 2007 Congress*passed a supplementary spending bill for Iraq that set a deadline for troop withdrawal but*President Bush*vetoed this bill, citing his concerns about setting a withdrawal deadline. He later signed a status of forces agreement that expired in 2011. That was not a deadline. It was the end of a contract. In which another contract should have been entered. The one Obama didn't get for several reasons. Mainly because he was committed to withdraw not securing gains.

To begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we’re ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al-Qaeda. It would mean that we’d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we’d allow the terrorists to establish a safe haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean we’d be increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.” That's what Bush said to his critics demanding a withdrawal deadline.

That's Bush's timeline. We leave when the commanders say it's time to leave.

It's funny how after Obama pulled all the troops out he celebrated his actions and took full credit for them. Democrats were saying if McCain won we'd still be in Iraq. And they'd be right.

But now its all gone to shit in Iraq. All the sudden it's Bush's fault the troops were pulled out. Which is just plain reversing narratives to fit whatever you need to say to defend Obama.