[niknik]

Originally Posted by GODISNOTGREAT ↗

See... its when you say things like this here that it becomes evident you dont pay any attention to whats going on in the country. How exactly do you equate our deficit increasing to 17 trillion and our borrowing .42 for every dollar the government spends to a good thing?

What I can't understand is Obama ran in 08 stating how irresponsible this was. Chastising Bush for "Taking a credit card out from the bank of China in our children's name. " To cheering crowds he opposes raising our countries debt limit calling it unpatriotic. In 06 he said this.


'The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the*US Government*can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.'
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...CmsdZi33Uho.99

Then he becomes President and spends and borrows more than Bush. Even shutting down the government and saying the Republicans are holding the nation hostage because they won't raise the debt limit for him. Was he holding the nation hostage when he refused to vote for the debt increase under Bush?

How do you liberals forget things like this? And were you liberals defending the Bush administration when they were over spending like i see some of you defending Obama?

Obama is a bold faced liar.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

I'll quote you, but is also to answer Poo on the stimulus.

At best the stimulus could be the cause of the economy being stable at a sluggish pace. Although that is still under speculations that neither sides of the fence can confirm.

However lets say we gave credit to obama's stimulus as a form of stagnant economy keeping us from further dropping into a depression. If that is the case, it is STILL a failed plan.

The stimulus was written in as a plan to go beyond that, in which it did not. I believe (as a moderate) had the plan been closer viewed, instead of being hammered out in bush's fiscal year, a bit more money could have saved face in proper directions for the economy.

So maybe, JUST maybe, the edge that was needed to actually make the plan work was way over looked, due to failed attempts at strategic politics. (i don't need to list the numerous crap spending that was in it, that could have went in a better direction) making it just a waste.

That is just to say his plan even brought us a stagnant sluggish economy. That isn't even proven to be the case. A handful of government jobs, and some state funded projects are not something worthy of saying the plan worked. Still we are left standing with potential to drop into a depression.

I can at least say I have seen plenty of lefty's start to concede that plan was a flop.


But moving on from 2009, we have to look at the rest of oh his term, nothing has improved beyond a stagnant state of an economy,A bigger debt, with nothing bright in the future that has his name stamped on it. Obama-care won't even be stable by 2017 when his exit is suppose to come. And now we have a new money sink on the horizon.

What would the picture look like right now if the stimulus NOT been implemented?

The idea was to try to learn something from the Great Depression, and do things differently.
It's easy to sit here now and say it wasn't worth it, that it made no difference, but what was the alternative? Repeating the failed strategy of the Great Depression?

Overall, if you want to look at the biggest economic differences between now and when times were more optimistic, it's that the middle class has been decimated...... That's been a process that's been developing for the last 35 years.
Who is responsible for the greatest economic disparity since the 1930's? Who's policies have favoured industry and business over workers? It's a subject for another thread, but we all know the answer.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

The stimulus was full of these green energy programs. Obama used the stimulus to push his green initiative. I know we needed the government to pump money into the economy. But i disagree with the stimulus as it was Implemented. The waste hidden within it was staggering. I think we would have been much better off giving every natural born citizen over 30 $10,000 that reported less than 100,000 in income the previous year.

You might be right

In hindsight there were certainly huge mistakes, and I'm sure he'd do things differently.... At least I'd hope so.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by GODISNOTGREAT ↗

See... its when you say things like this here that it becomes evident you dont pay any attention to whats going on in the country. How exactly do you equate our deficit increasing to 17 trillion and our borrowing .42 for every dollar the government spends to a good thing?

Is the unemployment rate lower? Pretty safe to say then that things are better?

Look, the debt is a huge issue, but IMHO the stimulus was a much more worthy dollar than a war with no point.
You can sit there and say it was a bad idea, but you should probably read up on the Great Depression and the circumstances. It might give you some insight into why certain decisions were made.

As far as the debt goes, the only politician with the guts to do anything about it was Ron Paul, and the republican establishment wanted nothing to do with him. Go ahead, vote in a republican next time, see if the debt goes down....... It won't, because it will mean cuts to spending or raising taxes...... Something they won't do either.

So I guess you might as well tell me who's going to turn this around too? Chris Christi? Rick perry?

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

What would the picture look like right now if the stimulus NOT been implemented?

The idea was to try to learn something from the Great Depression, and do things differently.
It's easy to sit here now and say it wasn't worth it, that it made no difference, but what was the alternative? Repeating the failed strategy of the Great Depression?

Overall, if you want to look at the biggest economic differences between now and when times were more optimistic, it's that the middle class has been decimated...... That's been a process that's been developing for the last 35 years.
Who is responsible for the greatest economic disparity since the 1930's? Who's policies have favoured industry and business over workers? It's a subject for another thread, but we all know the answer.

I don't believe the recession had anything to do with favoring industry. After all our government doesn't favor industry, or business. That's just a myth the left sells to get votes, we just discussed how Obama used stimulus to pump money into all kinds of businesses as well as huge tax breaks. So the left are just as guilty as they portray the right. They just disagree on the industry that should get it.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Is the unemployment rate lower? Pretty safe to say then that things are better?

Look, the debt is a huge issue, but IMHO the stimulus was a much more worthy dollar than a war with no point.
You can sit there and say it was a bad idea, but you should probably read up on the Great Depression and the circumstances. It might give you some insight into why certain decisions were made.

As far as the debt goes, the only politician with the guts to do anything about it was Ron Paul, and the republican establishment wanted nothing to do with him. Go ahead, vote in a republican next time, see if the debt goes down....... It won't, because it will mean cuts to spending or raising taxes...... Something they won't do either.

So I guess you might as well tell me who's going to turn this around too? Chris Christi? Rick perry?

We've created a system that seemingly can't be reversed. Of course no republicans will tackle the debt seriously. The left will sound the "they're coming after your government assistance" alarm and the commercials accusing the right being racist would be nonstop.

The political atmosphere in America is brutal, no one dares step out of line. You either stick to party agenda and talking points or your out. Stepping outside the box opens the door for the 24 hour news network pundits to tear you apart.

[Mr Poo]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Is it Russians driving or is it rebels? I'll look into it.

The thing is, if Russia decided to they could take all if the Ukraine in a couple of days...... Or at least put the hammer down in Crimea..... Seems like a back & forth battle right now.

Confirmed as a Russian tank battalion.

[Mr Poo]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Seems you just copied this response and are trying to pass it as your words. From a progressive website. "Occasional Planet " Is the website. By Arthur Lieber.

And give me a break. Saved or created 1.6 million jobs "A Year" is a laughable statement. And is not only false but just ridiculous. Nobody said the entire stimulus was a waste, just that there was enormous amounts of it in the stimulus. Money spent on mind boggling programs

What enormous amounts of it were wasted? Give examples, not dingle-berries from your ass..

[niknik]

Originally Posted by Mr Poo ↗

What enormous amounts of it were wasted? Give examples, not dingle-berries from your ass..

I can't believe you need examples. Maybe you should stop depending on Jon Stewart to enlighten you politically.

Is $1 million spent to put up signs saying this is a stimulus project a waste? I think so.

$600,000 to plant trees. Is that why the economy tanked? Was there a tree shortage

Almost $400,000 spent to study duck penis and vaginas. Your dream job.

$1.2 million to study erectile dysfunction in fat people. Mainly taking video interviews at a cost of $6,000 each.

$100,000 for puppet shows in Minnesota.

Almost $400,000 in New York for a program to get students to keep a diary of their weed and alcohol use.

$3.4 million to dig a tunnel for turtles to cross the road in Florida.

Didn't I already mention SOLYNDRA? This is your problem. You call $ 500,000,000 dingle-berries from my ass.

No matter the evidence, no matter the facts. You ignore and disregard reality and defend Democrats. Everyone knows the stimulus wasted millions, for you to deny that fits your whole "I think the Daily Show is the best news program on television " delusion. You're so entrenched on a side you believe anything your side says. You don't think for yourself.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

The navy went into Pakistan, based on intelligence that said bin laden being there was 50/50.
Obama took that chance, something bush would Never have contemplated, and killed the worlds top terrorist.
He signed off on that mission, and watched it in real time.

Umm. Bush sent special forces into Pakistan several times to kill people. So you're wrong that Bush wouldn't have done it. You're probably the only person who actually believes Bush wouldn't of. Not to mention Obama would have never gotten Bin Laden without Bush. Obama halted and vigorously opposed the methods used to get the information that lead to him. So i give Obama credit for allowing it to happen, but don't believe he did anything extraordinary that no one else had the courage.