[a175]

Oh look, Oswald knows an Arabic word... except not really.
Taqiyya is used to stay alive in the event that admitting your faith could get you killed.

Example-
You're a Shia and captured by ISIS. If you admit to being a Shia, you're going to wind up on the Death Videos section of DR. Taqiyya allows you to deny your faith, avoiding death. It's not incumbent or even encouraged, just allowed.

I'll help you out with your terminology, though. You're probably thinking of kitman, which is a subset of hiya. Hiya is used when you have a need that would go against whatever interpretation of Shariah you follow. An example of this would be banking. Across the board, nearly every interpretation of Shariah forbids the payment or acceptance of interest (riba) at any rate. So, technically speaking, it would be forbidden (haram) to have an interest-bearing savings account. Using hiya, one could (depending on what school of legal jurisprudence he or she follows) open the account anyway out of necessity, but often times they are told that they must give all or a portion of the interest earned to charity. They are still dealing with interest, but to them they see it as unavoidable. The most common use is mortgages or car purchases. It's hard to find a loan of that size that doesn't charge interest, so they've used hiya to create a workaround. A third party purchases the house and then resells it at a profit to the buyer, but in installments. While there isn't technically "interest", the profit is still made and the buyer still makes the payments they can afford.
Kitman, specifically, is paying lip-service when your heart tells you otherwise. Kind of like taking an oath of allegiance even though you can't stand the leadership of the country (as in someone hating the president yet swearing to obey the orders of the commander in chief). Scholarly support on taqiyya, kitman, and hiya vary depending on who you ask.

But, hey, I'm a Muslim so you can't trust what I say about Islam.
I'll try to remember and keep you in my prayers at the mosque today, Oswald

[Karma]

Originally Posted by a175 ↗

Pardon me for not noticing your femininity, madame.

Of course I've heard of the No-Go Zones... so much so that your own MP (yes, I know it isn't Military Police as I'm not an uncultured hick) said the idea of it was nonsense.
Regarding your choice of news, if I was going to base my opinions on what's written in the Express, I might as well start reading the National Enquirer as well. If that's how you get your information, I feel truly sorry for you. Besides, the MP's aren't even who brought the issue up front. It was Baroness Cox, who has a, shall we say, "interesting" record. I don't see her fighting Beth Din courts in the UK.
Regarding Dearborn, so you think it's a similar situation? Well, that's a good thing. The largest Arab population in America, and one of (if not THE) largest Muslim populations as well. There are several mosques in the city, and you can find halal food nearly everywhere. Know what else you can find? Strip clubs, liquor stores, and more pork-products than you could ever eat. Far, far more churches than mosques by the way. The only thing missing is a legitimate synagogue, which is in the next town over. It should be noted, however, that the local interfaith communities (chaired by a Muslim woman) has suggested building a synagogue in hopes of having a greater Jewish presence in Dearborn.
For future reference, if you're going to use Dearborn as an example you should probably see it with your own eyes... sort of like your notorious no-go zones.

I should also mention that you aren't so unique in your world travels.
Most of Europe and the United States, Japan, Oman, the UAE, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan (3 times), and few other interesting places.

I am really enjoying this exchange of opinions. I really mean that. First of all the sentence " Dearborn Michigan is just like the east end of London.....' Was sarcasm, not agreement!

Sounds like, I may be wrong, that you are military or ex military. Respect. And you say you are Muslim? Then please do enlighten me because I can only go by what I see, feel and read......, taqqiya means you can lie to the infidels? The whole aim of Islam is to bring it to the world, totally disregarding human laws, the western way of life etc?

IS it legal in the Islamic faith to marry children and have sex with them? And the prophet Mohammed married Aisha at 6 and waited till so was 9 to consummate the marriage!? Enlighten me. I am open minded. I really am.

[Oswald2001]

TAQIYYA is taught in the moo slum DEATH Cult FAKE 'religion'.

And...of course...they are taught to lie...about TAQIYYA if ever questioned about it.


moo slums are liars through and through.

If you can ever get a moo slum to be honest for a second, they'll tell you that moo slums lie lie lie lie lie lie lie.


It's actually part of the Arab/moo slum CHAOS based ******* for which the moo slum DEATH Cult is an infection vector/contamination vehicle.

[a175]

Originally Posted by Karma ↗

I am really enjoying this exchange of opinions. I really mean that. First of all the sentence " Dearborn Michigan is just like the east end of London.....' Was sarcasm, not agreement!

Sounds like, I may be wrong, that you are military or ex military. Respect. And you say you are Muslim? Then please do enlighten me because I can only go by what I see, feel and read......, taqqiya means you can lie to the infidels? The whole aim of Islam is to bring it to the world, totally disregarding human laws, the western way of life etc?

IS it legal in the Islamic faith to marry children and have sex with them? And the prophet Mohammed married Aisha at 6 and waited till so was 9 to consummate the marriage!? Enlighten me. I am open minded. I really am.

I bet you are.
Yes, ex-military and a former civilian advisor/instructor overseas after my time in service.
I just explained what taqiyya is. If you ask me if I'm a Muslim, and I know that saying "yes" will get me killed, I can choose to deny my faith in order to preserve my life. That's not "lying to the infidel". In fact, I've yet to meet a Muslim who actually uses the word "infidel". If you want to learn the history behind the term, it was used by the Church to describe Jews and Muslims.
If you want to know legal rulings, I suggest you contact directly about 100 scholars and then wait for about 100 different answers.
The majority (but not unanimous in any sense) opinion is that Muhammad married A'isha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9. There's plenty of disagreement among scholars, some claiming she was in her late teens and early 20s. It doesn't really matter to me, though. A'isha, for me, does not sit upon an elevated station as an example to follow. Furthermore, this was 1400 years ago. To put that into historical context, the legal age of consent in the US state of Delaware was 7 as recently as recently as 1880, and I have yet heard anybody call that pedophilia. Obviously, times are much different now and it is no longer the norm.

Honestly, though, why would you ask me anything if you think I'm allowed to lie to you?
Here are a few quotes regarding lying and truthfulness in Islam:

“Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar.”
The exception to this is when trying to bridge gaps and bring people together. You could say that someone said nice things about another, even if he didn't, in order to quell bad tempers.

Here's a reference for you. It's written by Muslims for Muslims:
http://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins...ater-sin-lying

Of course, it is of a religious nature. Therefore, one who sees no value in theism probably won't find much use in this. I'm not sure what your stance is regarding religion in general, though. This is written from a Shia perspective, which is more representative of what I follow.
If you want to be more particular, the website of the late Fadlallah says this about the age of marriage:

Q: Is it morally and traditionally permissible for a man of 32 to marry of woman who is barely 17 years old?

A: Why not: The prophet(p.), our role model, married Aisha when she wad 10 years old while he was 53 years. If both parties accept the marriage than there is nothing wrong with it.

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/QA/1a.htm

So, you can see that this scholar views A'isha's age as 10 when married to Muhammad. Like I said, different answers from different scholars.

Both of the websites offer correspondence. If you legitimately want to know what some legal opinions are, why not ask them directly? Explain your situation and ask them whatever questions you have. They'll be more than happy to help (although the Bayynat website does take awhile to respond and the English isn't perfect).


If you don't believe they'd be truthful to a non-Muslim, just be ironic about it and lie to them first. Tell them you're a Muslim and then ask away.

[a175]

Look, you don't have to believe me about taqiyya.

Taken from a non-Islamic source:

taqiya
noun ta·qi·ya \təˈkēyə\
Popularity: Bottom 20% of words
Definition of taqiya
plural
: the principle of practicing the dissimulation of outward conformity permitted Muslims in a hostile or persecuting non-Muslim environment for the sake of their personal safety
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/taqiya

Oxford University is in the UK, you can ask the professors of the Islamic Studies program (programme). Their dictionary gives the same meaning, but since it includes the word "Islam" I decided not to even bother.

[Karma]

a175 Thank you for you replies. Appreciated.

[Oswald2001]

Originally Posted by Karma ↗

a175 Thank you for you replies. Appreciated.

You may be sincere in your inquires and/or curiosity.

I can assure, however, that a moo slum is not.

[a175]

Originally Posted by Karma ↗

a175 Thank you for you replies. Appreciated.

I owe you a bigger apology than I realized. It says Female right next to your avatar lol
<<<for me

[commondenom]

Originally Posted by Oswald2001 ↗

TAQIYYA is taught in the moo slum DEATH Cult FAKE 'religion'.

And...of course...they are taught to lie...about TAQIYYA if ever questioned about it.


moo slums are liars through and through.

If you can ever get a moo slum to be honest for a second, they'll tell you that moo slums lie lie lie lie lie lie lie.


It's actually part of the Arab/moo slum CHAOS based ******* for which the moo slum DEATH Cult is an infection vector/contamination vehicle.

shut it hick....isn't your wife/sister needing you to fetch some moonshine or something?

grown ups are talking here so quit trying to ruin every fucking thread with your ingnorant crap and fuck off

[Karma]

Originally Posted by a175 ↗

I bet you are.
Yes, ex-military and a former civilian advisor/instructor.

Honestly, though, why would you ask me anything if you think I'm allowed to lie to you?
Here are a few quotes regarding lying and truthfulness in Islam:

“Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, a liar.”
The exception to this is when trying to bridge gaps and bring people together. You could say that someone said nice things about another, even if he didn't, in order to quell bad tempers.

Here's a reference for you. It's written by Muslims for Muslims:
http://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins...ater-sin-lying

Of course, it is of a religious nature. Therefore, one who sees no value in theism probably won't find much use in this. I'm not sure what your stance is regarding religion in general, though. This is written from a Shia perspective, which is more representative of what I follow.

If you don't believe they'd be truthful to a non-Muslim, just be ironic about it and lie to them first. Tell them you're a Muslim and then ask away.

Again, thank you. First of all, one of my traits is honesty. I would not lie to obtain answers. That's just how I feel. If I had to lie to save my life I'm sure I would, but generally lying is abhorrent to me. Anyone (in my personal life, who know me) knows that I am honest to the point of my own detriment. Lies cause nothing but trouble.

I am not saying YOU are lying to me just because you said you are Muslim. As far as I can see you have no reason to lie to me here on this website. You are not gaining anything by lying, that I can see. Likewise I am not lying to you.

My stance on religion is that all or any religion is not for me. Growing up with parents who flitted between atheism, Jehovah, Mormon, Christian and any other faith they relied on at any one particular time put me off blind faith in anything ( or ANYONE ) for the rest of my life. Had one husband (ex Royal Marine) who's family were practicing Catholic, and current husband who grew up Christian Scientist. My faith is in myself. I live with my conscience and deeds past and present and am accountable for them. Live and let live is my ethos. Nothing but threats to that way of life bothers me. No one or no thing bothers me unless they try and force their ideals on me or mine.

That is why I read your responses and comments with an open mind and heart. I don't know you, nor you me.

Respect.