[CrunchyCripple]

There's only so much dog an abusive, neglectful person can manage safely.

Pit bulls are a very forgiving breed that usually takes an extensive amount of abuse and neglect from their owners and don't bat an eye.

The bigger dogs are not only more expensive, but don't tend to take as much shit before you get eaten.

There's a balance that needs to be kept. Pit bulls are small enough to be handled, even when mean. Bull Mastiffs and the like, not so much.

[TheVrist]

Sorry too disagree, but larger dogs especially in the mastiff breeds, are more likely to take the abuse without an iota of aggression in return. Most Mastiff breeds are lineages from 200+ years of selective breeding, bullmastiffs being a favorable because of their "no mauling" characteristics.

Aside from that, most the disdain isn't about a dog that will attack an abusive owner, but a dog that tends to attack innocent bystanders, children, and other animals.

I don't see many reports of AKC Amstaffs in the news killing, mauling, etc.. most are that of mutts, because the majority of APBT-"pitbulls" are just that. Poor breeding, poor ownership, and poor stigma that drives that dark force behind the breed.

If you got an APBT that is awesome, sweet, cute and cuddly, great! No one ever said that ins't possible. Luckily you got a baby that wasn't meant for that. However he/she is part of a group of dog, that majority of their owners don't want cute/cuddly.

[CrunchyCripple]

Yes, true(on the abuse) - just like properly bred Pit Bulls.

It's when the shitty breeding practices take place that the dogs start to take on "mauling" rather than "no mauling" temperaments. AKC standards no longer apply when the dogs haven't been bred to them.

What's easier to control - a 65 pound biter, or a 130 pound biter? I think that's part of the reason why there hasn't been a huge influx of these giant breeds in the Social Status Pit Bull circles. Not just a money issue.

Any small time drug dealer can get an expensive dog. There are too many people out there who are breeding purebred, to standard dogs for the money, for them not to be available. They would have leaked out into the mainstream by now.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Most of the bigger dogs available aren't as cheap. Pit bulls can be expensive, but you can a lot of times find them for free. A bull mastiff will cost you several hundred dollars.

I think it's about the same up here, I know a lot of people that got a free pit and others that paid a few hundred dollars.
I saw pressa canarios online starting at about 500 dollars, not from a breeder though.

That's a good point though, maybe the price scares off the segment of people that shouldn't have one to begin with

[TheVrist]

Bull-mastiffs were once for a brief time sought after for the purpose of making the vicious attack dog group, unfortunately they couldn't even train/breed it in to them

Now for some time, (bad) people "re-creating" non mainstream pit bulls, tend to leave out the bullmastiff portion of the bull terrier make up.

As far as size, being much different, the people want mean evil dogs don't care. I was part of a group rescue for hybrid wolves for years. People got these wolfdogs which could be huge, and try to force aggression into them. Never succeeded, but point is, people that want evil animals don't discriminate on sizes.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by CrunchyCripple ↗

A dog that has high prey drive and hasn't been socialized with children can be dangerous to have around babies/kids, because they do act like prey.

Since dogs are predators, it's very important to socialize them with all sorts of different people, so they won't be fearful and/or get the wrong idea about the tiny squeaky things that smell like yummy poop and food.

Don't ever forget what a dog is, before it is labeled as a domesticated companion. No matter how well behaved. It may act like your kid's sibling in a fur suit, but don't forget what it is.

Good breeders will socialize their puppies starting weeks before they're ready to go to their new homes. It's very important to set them up for the rest of their lives. It really does matter.

As for the people who refuse to put a dog down, no matter how severe the reason - I find them sad and scary. I do understand that the individual dog needs to be looked at in the individual curcumstance. That being said, if the person who owns the dog can't see that the dog is unstable, or in an environment that's causing it to act out of fear or be defensive - they absolutely should not have the dog, or any other dog - because they will most likely fail it too.

Your dog has killed 7 cats. This would indicate a high prey drive.

Based on some of your previous comments you don't seem to think that this is something that can be stopped, because it is out of instinct.

The part I'm not understanding is how a dog cannot be socialized towards cats but can towards human children? If it is part of the same instinct ( prey drive ). I would also have to question what could potentially happen if a child jumped your fence into your yard

[TheVrist]

A big problem with breeders, consumers, etc, is they tend to get their dogs fully un-socialized. In most states, it is legal to sell off a pup at 6 weeks, in some states there are no laws.

Dogs, from 3-8 weeks have a crucial learning experience while in the litter. They learn so much at this time. Some people don't even realize it, they are even "potty trained" during this time. They learn socialization with other dogs, pecking orders, respect etc. Needless to say, what happens in this time frame has a huge impact on the dog's over all personality.

But most people wanting that cute cuddly puppy snag them away at 6 weeks. and they miss out on so much. They rely on the new owner to teach them. We tend to screw them up with lack of knowledge on doggy thinking lol.

I usually keep my pups till they are 10 weeks old before they go home to their new parents. One thing I practice is imprinting the pups on social issues, such as prey drive. I refuse the pups any toys that look like other animals, or resemble anything of a prey. If they show aggression even to a chew toy, i'll take it away and give em a "No Bad" reprimand.

When I feed the pups, any sign of aggression towards other pups they get corrected. If rough housing becomes overly aggressive they get corrected. These are some things that they won't learn from the mother, or other pups. But these things, as well as a plethora of other things practiced, can totally nullify any misconceptions of instinctual drives.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

A big problem with breeders, consumers, etc, is they tend to get their dogs fully un-socialized. In most states, it is legal to sell off a pup at 6 weeks, in some states there are no laws.

Dogs, from 3-8 weeks have a crucial learning experience while in the litter. They learn so much at this time. Some people don't even realize it, they are even "potty trained" during this time. They learn socialization with other dogs, pecking orders, respect etc. Needless to say, what happens in this time frame has a huge impact on the dog's over all personality.

But most people wanting that cute cuddly puppy snag them away at 6 weeks. and they miss out on so much. They rely on the new owner to teach them. We tend to screw them up with lack of knowledge on doggy thinking lol.

I usually keep my pups till they are 10 weeks old before they go home to their new parents. One thing I practice is imprinting the pups on social issues, such as prey drive. I refuse the pups any toys that look like other animals, or resemble anything of a prey. If they show aggression even to a chew toy, i'll take it away and give em a "No Bad" reprimand.

When I feed the pups, any sign of aggression towards other pups they get corrected. If rough housing becomes overly aggressive they get corrected. These are some things that they won't learn from the mother, or other pups. But these things, as well as a plethora of other things practiced, can totally nullify any misconceptions of instinctual drives.

So it's safe to say that you feel a prey drive can be overcome through training?

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

So it's safe to say that you feel a prey drive can be overcome through training?

Absolutely. All domesticated animals are trainable beyond instinctual actions.

We virtually train out all of the horses instinct to make them safe for us.

[Mr Poo]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Absolutely. All domesticated animals are trainable beyond instinctual actions.

We virtually train out all of the horses instinct to make them safe for us.

Completely agree on every level..

Pitbulls can be trained as service dogs, just like any lab or golden retriever.