[Steve]

Originally Posted by icheerthebull ↗

well kind of. Thats the spin anyway



http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...429-story.html

So a boxer can save a life yet Australia's Prime Minister couldn't, sounds a little fishy to me.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Watertorque ↗

Tony Abbott the budgie-smuggler!

Yeah Heroin is bullshit! Opium has been around for who-knows-when and Morphine an essential drug for excruciating pain relief in the medical field, but all essentially the same animal to a process. It's unfortunate that greed and addiction taints purer intention.

Remember Mandrax? That was meant to subdue and relax, only a few of us knew what happened there.

Society is to blame.

We had purple hearts over here (Drinamyl), it was mainly just amphetamine it was also called Dexamyl or Dexies. The band Dexy's Midnight Runners took their name from said drug.
Of course it got abused and was subsequently banned.

[Watertorque]

Originally Posted by Top Gear ↗

So a boxer can save a life yet Australia's Prime Minister couldn't, sounds a little fishy to me.

We are talking about Tony Abbott though, whose regarded as one of the world's most hated Prime Ministers. Indonesia took a great disliking to him, calling him arrogant and insensitive, which unfortunately wouldn't have helped their appeals at all.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Watertorque ↗

We are talking about Tony Abbott though, whose regarded as one of the world's most hated Prime Ministers. Indonesia took a great disliking to him, calling him arrogant and insensitive, which unfortunately wouldn't have helped their appeals at all.

I can't say that I know much about him really, I know he had a pop at our monarchy a few years back over something or other.
I do find it arrogant to try to dictate to another country how they should run their penal system.
Those two Aussies were caught red handed so I don't see the problem with them being shot, do the crime do your time so to speak.

[Watertorque]

Originally Posted by Top Gear ↗

We had purple hearts over here (Drinamyl), it was mainly just amphetamine it was also called Dexamyl or Dexies. The band Dexy's Midnight Runners took their name from said drug.
Of course it got abused and was subsequently banned.

Hahaha...we had Dexies too back in the day.But the drug never worked for me because I think I'm slightly ADHD anyway. Over here cocaine is the choice of drug, but apart from the huge expense, also does nothing for me. I fall asleep on the stuff so I never bother wasting my money on it.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Watertorque ↗

Hahaha...we had Dexies too back in the day.But the drug never worked for me because I think I'm slightly ADHD anyway. Over here cocaine is the choice of drug, but apart from the huge expense, also does nothing for me. I fall asleep on the stuff so I never bother wasting my money on it.

I only take what I am prescribed these days, alcohol is still on the menu, but that seems to be socially acceptable even though it's one of the worst drugs for you.

[Nickola]

Originally Posted by Top Gear ↗

I can't say that I know much about him really, I know he had a pop at our monarchy a few years back over something or other.
I do find it arrogant to try to dictate to another country how they should run their penal system.
Those two Aussies were caught red handed so I don't see the problem with them being shot, do the crime do your time so to speak.

They were given Intel on these men from Australia. If they really abhor drugs that much in their country, they could have used the situation to target the drug syndicate that was run out of their fucking country.
But no..there's too much corruption, police over there are involved.

It's truly ridiculous, these men were shot and killed to prove a political point.

[Nickola]

Here you go, I'm quoting my gal pal. She says it better than I ever could.




There have been a lot of opinions on my Facebook page about the recent Indonesian executions. I thought there wasn’t enough on the matter so here’s my contribution. I know you’re just bursting to hear it

The arguments about them having known the risks therefore deserving of their fate, a country's right to prosecute their own laws etc etc to me is not the main issue. It is just white noise and a little bit of wilful ignorance. I don’t mean to be rude about it but I feel it lacks the basic human tendencies to empathy, compassion and forgiveness. However, in this country your views are actually those of the majority. I respect that but I think it is a bit sad. I hope I can give you some food for thought and maybe change your mind.

To me it is about moral absolutes. Killing is wrong. No matter who does it. It is a violation of human rights.
We don't stay quiet about human rights violations in other countries - what about the persecution of gays in Russia? People don't say "Oh well. That's their law and their right to prosecute it", do we? "Those gay friends of mine knew the risk. Why would they go there??". Or the archaic laws against women in Saudi Arabia. These are just two examples, there are many others, of how we don’t always respect or tolerate a country’s right to make their own laws.
As for Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran the difference here or course, is that these guys were serious criminals by any measure. It is much harder to find sympathy, compassion and empathy for them and their situation as opposed to gays, lesbians or women in general. But the law doesn't work that way.
Every person has human rights as declared by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Even when they are criminals. Lawyers know it. Doctors know it. A thinking feeling person knows it. Human rights are everybody's business. No matter what country you come from or what country is in violation of those rights as they are granted to everybody. You should speak up for those violations judged as contrary to the globally accepted norm for civilised society. Making and prosecuting laws based on the emotions of a community's response to crime is a devolution of a civilised society. It is a backwards step in legal reasoning and jurisprudence.
The death penalty doesn’t just penalise the convict. It penalises their family and friends also. Probably more so because they are the survivors. You may say “Well, they should’ve thought about that before they committed the crime”. Maybe. But does that mean these innocent people deserve such torture? What if it was your family this was happening to? Would you still feel the same?
On this point another argument I have heard is that of the possible effect of the smuggled drugs on the public. Well, I would say this. How can you say that the drug smugglers have to own their poor choices but not drug takers? If the drug takers choose to partake and overdose and die why are they not held to the same idea as the masters of their own fate? I personally believe drug addiction needs to be treated as a health issue and not a criminal one but I’m just trying to point out the flawed rationale of the above argument.

I am profoundly sad by what happened to these men. Not least because they were reformed prisoners. They were doing good in the prison system helping to reform other inmates through education, the arts and religion. They are not the same men as 10 years ago - and even if they were unrepentant my opinion would not change.
Killing people is wrong. That is what it comes down to. Everything else is white noise.

[Pyramid_Head]

Killed over drug offenses? WOW...

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Nickola ↗

They were given Intel on these men from Australia. If they really abhor drugs that much in their country, they could have used the situation to target the drug syndicate that was run out of their fucking country.
But no..there's too much corruption, police over there are involved.

It's truly ridiculous, these men were shot and killed to prove a political point.

Regardless of any political motives their guilt has never been in doubt.
What would your attitude be if 2 Indonesians were caught in OZ dealing death and their government started to try to strong arm your government into a more lenient sentence?
The fact that they have been on death row for 10 years is pretty irrelevant, it's the norm in the USA.
They must have known the penalty if caught, if they didn't more fool them, I have no sympathy for them at all.
I am biased I guess, I had a pal OD and die because of that filthy drug so my views may be a little askew...