[OhJstFkOffAlrdy]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

Before 9-11 we were aware they were trying to attack us. But we didn't have the credible evidence we needed to stop it.

I have to disagree with you there. FBI field agents filed countless reports calling for the investigation of men of Middle Eastern descent who were enrolled in flight school and had either low simulator scores or next to no interest with regards to take-off and landing maneuvers and procedures. Most of these reports even cited flight schools in areas of the country where several of the so-called Magnificent 19 were later discovered to have received their flight training. Hell, at least one of the pilots received no-questions-asked training from a Naval aviation program -- just one of many such frequent courtesies produced by the friendly relationship between Riyadh and Washington at the time. Such training was probably behind the sudden dive and almost flat trajectory at which American Airlines Flight 77 was piloted into the Pentagon.

Whether or not anyone on either side of that relationship knew what said individual planned on doing with that training is another question entirely, but there were certainly enough dots there to be connected.

If I had to lay money on it, I'd say that September Eleventh was -- just like Pearl Harbor before it -- allowed to occur so that it would provide ample justification for a wider geopolitical agenda.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by Metal Mike ↗

I have to disagree with you there. FBI field agents filed countless reports calling for the investigation of men of Middle Eastern descent who were enrolled in flight school and had either low simulator scores or next to no interest with regards to take-off and landing maneuvers and procedures. Most of these reports even cited flight schools in areas of the country where several of the so-called Magnificent 19 were later discovered to have received their flight training. Hell, at least one of the pilots received no-questions-asked training from a Naval aviation program -- just one of many such frequent courtesies produced by the friendly relationship between Riyadh and Washington at the time. Such training was probably behind the sudden dive and almost flat trajectory at which American Airlines Flight 77 was piloted into the Pentagon.

Whether or not anyone on either side of that relationship knew what said individual planned on doing with that training is another question entirely, but there were certainly enough dots there to be connected.

If I had to lay money on it, I'd say that September Eleventh was -- just like Pearl Harbor before it -- allowed to occur so that it would provide ample justification for a wider geopolitical agenda.

Truth^^^^^.

Its been well documented that the FBI was aware of the situation, and for whatever reason nothing was done.


I also find it odd that its well known that Riyadh is funding and otherwise assisting ISIS, and nothing is being said or done about it. Its very similar to
9'11 in that regard, whereas in 9'11 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals and nothing was done.

The truth is the Saudis are not our friends, never were and never will be. Its a business relationship at best, and from time to time their true intentions show through.

[OhJstFkOffAlrdy]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Truth^^^^^.

Its been well documented that the FBI was aware of the situation, and for whatever reason nothing was done.

The biggest problem with bureaucracies is that they're run by bureaucrats.

The reports I mentioned were indeed run up the flagpole, but eventually they wound up on the desks of those who for whatever reason thought that it would be wiser to simply not rock the boat.

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

I also find it odd that its well known that Riyadh is funding and otherwise assisting ISIS, and nothing is being said or done about it. Its very similar to
9'11 in that regard, whereas in 9'11 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals and nothing was done.

The truth is the Saudis are not our friends, never were and never will be. Its a business relationship at best, and from time to time their true intentions show through.

There's something on the order of 20,000 princes in the House of Saud, which is the only officially recognizable Saudi Arabian authority of which to speak. The government of Saudi Arabia -- i.e. the institution itself -- and the majority of those who rule the country are very much aware of the fact that organizations such as ISIS and al-Qaeda would leap at the chance to successfully overthrow them.

The problem is that among the numerous Saudi princes and the wealthy elite alike, there are those for whom charity to fundamentally Islamic organizations is perceived as a must. Do some knowingly give to militant and terroristic organizations, or is it simply a matter of money being funnelled from one front charity to another until it winds up in jihadi hands? My guess would be a little of both, but either way it means that Riyadh itself comes off as looking like its hands are clean of the whole mess.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by Metal Mike ↗

I have to disagree with you there. FBI field agents filed countless reports calling for the investigation of men of Middle Eastern descent who were enrolled in flight school and had either low simulator scores or next to no interest with regards to take-off and landing maneuvers and procedures. Most of these reports even cited flight schools in areas of the country where several of the so-called Magnificent 19 were later discovered to have received their flight training. Hell, at least one of the pilots received no-questions-asked training from a Naval aviation program -- just one of many such frequent courtesies produced by the friendly relationship between Riyadh and Washington at the time. Such training was probably behind the sudden dive and almost flat trajectory at which American Airlines Flight 77 was piloted into the Pentagon.

Whether or not anyone on either side of that relationship knew what said individual planned on doing with that training is another question entirely, but there were certainly enough dots there to be connected.

If I had to lay money on it, I'd say that September Eleventh was -- just like Pearl Harbor before it -- allowed to occur so that it would provide ample justification for a wider geopolitical agenda.

Hey I disagree with it too. But it's obviously the truth. They thought it wasn't credible Because they didn't do anything about it. Right? Or I suppose they didn't believe it was imminent credible threat. No doubt our information and intelligence sharing wasn't operating as a unit between all agencies.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

Truth^^^^^.

Its been well documented that the FBI was aware of the situation, and for whatever reason nothing was done.


I also find it odd that its well known that Riyadh is funding and otherwise assisting ISIS, and nothing is being said or done about it. Its very similar to
9'11 in that regard, whereas in 9'11 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals and nothing was done.

The truth is the Saudis are not our friends, never were and never will be. Its a business relationship at best, and from time to time their true intentions show through.

The Saudis need us. I don't believe they wish us harm. From my understanding they give us some of our most important information on terror originations. Not to mention our countless common interests.
And the Saudis were supplying the Syrian rebels. Much like our government was considering doing. Because they supported the overthrow of The Syrian leader. Which America supports as well. And it's the Saudis who publicly stated yesterday that America will be attacked if we don't take measures to stop it.

[niknik]

Originally Posted by Kanda444 ↗

the issue is the article, the claims it's making, and using those claims (which have no credibility) as justification for action. the fact of the matter is, the Canadian border is also similarly unsecured (there are huge swaths of land up north from where i live where you can walk through the woods and never realize you crossed the border. its the route locals used and still use for smuggling weed from BC) and the threat of a terror attack from the canadian border is just as 'imminent'.. that is to say, there is no credible evidence to support that claim either.

there is, as you know, a huge deal of space between an 'imminent' attack threat and the potential for an attack in the future. while the latter is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, i dont think sensationalist claims unsupported by any evidence does anybody any good at all.

in my opinion, the tactic is similar to what we saw the left doing during the proposed 'assault weapon' ban. they showed sensationalist reports of gun violence, acted like gun violence had never existed before in the nation, and tried to use it as political grounds to pass legislation that dealt with 'assault rifles' when really, the issue was a handgun issue.... in other words, sensationalism led to unwarranted panic, which led to political inaction. now, in the case of guns, im fine with political inaction, honestly... im not fine with political inaction when it comes to border security. thus, i feel that only honest arguments based on sound proof should be used to keep the conversation credible. sensationalism and unwarranted panic will likely, again, result in political inaction and that, i feel, we cant afford.

ISIS is a serious threat and need to be dealt with. i completely agree with this. the speed at which they accomplished what they have is simply staggering to me and should be used as an indication of their potential danger. however, it's hard to clearly understand he situation and to act when unsubstantiated claims permeate the conversation... or at least, thats how i feel.

I think we don't look at our northern border as being as vulnerable because we have the full support of the Canadians. Who use our information to stop people from flying into their country. So it's much harder for terrorist to gain entry into Canada than to central and south America.

[niknik]

We will know soon enough where the Saudis stand. Whether or not they help fight isis.

[oldnorseman]

Calm down, all. This is simply the Scare of the Week. There will be another one next week. I remember a time -- it was long, long ago -- when Americans didn't spend time wringing their hands and dribbling poo into their drawers at supposed threats. Stay tuned for the Disease of the Week, the Contaminated Food Item of the Week, the Obama Malfeasance of the Week, and the Half-Witted Celebrity Scandal of the Week. Geezus!

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

The Saudis need us. I don't believe they wish us harm. From my understanding they give us some of our most important information on terror originations. Not to mention our countless common interests.
And the Saudis were supplying the Syrian rebels. Much like our government was considering doing. Because they supported the overthrow of The Syrian leader. Which America supports as well. And it's the Saudis who publicly stated yesterday that America will be attacked if we don't take measures to stop it.

The Syrian "rebels", had Islamic extremists in their ranks from day 1....... Those rebels are now known as ISIS, and their M.O. is to gain control of Syria and Iraq...... Which is why now its gone full circle to providing military support to Assad. Its a messy situation.

I don't trust the Saudis any more than Pakistan, and I don't give a fuck what the Government tells us to believe. We were led to believe that Pakistan was a friend, meanwhile it was harboring Bin Laden all along and was the home of al quada training camps.
Saudi Arabia was home to the vast majority of the highjackers, and Bin Laden himself. They can say whatever they want to publicly, just like Pakistan did, but their funding says what their really all about.

[rob666]

Originally Posted by niknik ↗

I think we don't look at our northern border as being as vulnerable because we have the full support of the Canadians. Who use our information to stop people from flying into their country. So it's much harder for terrorist to gain entry into Canada than to central and south America.

The only way your getting into Canada is through a boat or on a flight..... We're not perfect, but we're nowhere near Mexico's incompetence..... People need to remember that we had a large combat role in Afghanistan, and we're your largest trading partner..... We're on the hitlist too