[Politkovskaja]

Originally Posted by Kanda444 ↗

fair enough, though our legal system isnt as black and white as the media makes it seem. you have federal, state and local laws...sometimes not congruent with each other. the laws regarding how to deal with police, for example, are different in (say) New York City than they are here....in NYC, a cop can stop you and search you for no reason. here, if a cop stops you and asks for your ID, you can flat out tell them no and carry on with your day. that's what im talking about....local laws and what you are legally allowed to do per jurisdiction.

......now, does that have anything to do with this case? no. the more i watch the video, the more on the cop's side i get. i watched this video with my ex-cop father in law....and i ended up more on the cop's side than he did, if that says anything.

Of course nothing is black and white, and I feel truthfully sorry that the officer in question felt is a necessity to withdraw his legal duties.
The cop's "pullment" (new word) was entitled as per his job description, I think he handled that like a champ.

Either way. If a cop asks you to sit, you ask; how low. When the setting clears, you have more things to ask about.
I do not like the emploration of this, but I'd much rather take that than the alternative.

[Kanda444]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

One of the bigger legal flaws, is it IS flawed. Laws have been written, re-written, and adjusted so much, they have become a riddle of loophole advantage.

In a couple of states, saying "no" to a search, is admission of guilt. Laws adjusted, makes the admission arrestable/detainable, with grounds of probable cause.

there are many laws that are written in vague ways for that exact purpose up here. the knife carrying law locally comes to mind as an example:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons—Penalty.

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or....

(that's incomplete but it's the part im talking about)...so it's written in a manner that is supposed to allow for 'intent' to be considered. that is to say, if you were carrying a pocket knife in your pocket and were to use it to defend yourself, the law might say that you were within your rights as you werent concealing your weapon in a 'furtive' (taken, done, used, etc., surreptitiously or by stealth; secret) manner....however, if you were to get caught shoplifting and they were to find a pocket knife in your pocket, the law could say that you were carrying it 'furtively', implying that you intended to use the weapon potentially (which could be true or not), and you would be hit with a 'dangerous weapon' charge.

....or, like what happened with me, you get caught shoplifting and the cop finds a pocket knife on you....then neglects to mention it in his report and moves it from you pocket to you bag so it's in (what he feels is) a better spot.

laws like that can be nice since they try to focus on the person's intent...but they also allow for abuse of power as a person can have lots of extra charges piled on potentially. that's just one flaw and not even the most important one, i'd think.


i've been told before by a cop that me refusing to answer his question was 'probably cause' but i've also been taught that that isnt true locally. the cops here dont hesitate to try to talk you into letting them search you or enter your home though.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by Kanda444 ↗

there are many laws that are written in vague ways for that exact purpose up here. the knife carrying law locally comes to mind as an example:



(that's incomplete but it's the part im talking about)...so it's written in a manner that is supposed to allow for 'intent' to be considered. that is to say, if you were carrying a pocket knife in your pocket and were to use it to defend yourself, the law might say that you were within your rights as you werent concealing your weapon in a 'furtive' (taken, done, used, etc., surreptitiously or by stealth; secret) manner....however, if you were to get caught shoplifting and they were to find a pocket knife in your pocket, the law could say that you were carrying it 'furtively', implying that you intended to use the weapon potentially (which could be true or not), and you would be hit with a 'dangerous weapon' charge.

....or, like what happened with me, you get caught shoplifting and the cop finds a pocket knife on you....then neglects to mention it in his report and moves it from you pocket to you bag so it's in (what he feels is) a better spot.

laws like that can be nice since they try to focus on the person's intent...but they also allow for abuse of power as a person can have lots of extra charges piled on potentially. that's just one flaw and not even the most important one, i'd think.


i've been told before by a cop that me refusing to answer his question was 'probably cause' but i've also been taught that that isnt true locally. the cops here dont hesitate to try to talk you into letting them search you or enter your home though.

Sometimes the best way to beat the law, is to actually abide by it.

EDIT: abide by it, i meant during the confrontation.

[Kanda444]

Originally Posted by Politkovskaja ↗

Of course nothing is black and white, and I feel truthfully sorry that the officer in question felt is a necessity to withdraw his legal duties.
The cop's "pullment" (new word) was entitled as per his job description, I think he handled that like a champ.

Either way. If a cop asks you to sit, you ask; how low. When the setting clears, you have more things to ask about.
I do not like the emploration of this, but I'd much rather take that than the alternative.

i heard a judge say on tv recently that she had to teach her children 'when a cop tells you to do something, you say sir and maam and you keep your hands where they can see them....you do that and you might make it through'....then the judge went on to say that white parents dont have to teach that to their children the way that minority parents do.


....that's fuckin bullshit. my parents had that exact conversation with me and it kept me from getting shot by police one night and i mean that literally. it doesnt matter what color your skin is...when two cops have their spotlight in your car, their red and blues on, their guns drawn and are over the PA saying 'throw your weapon out of the car window and keep your hands where i can see them'....then ask you 'why were you running?'....you'd best have your hands where they can be seen and you best be respectful. i had gone for my cell phone and the cops thought i was moving for a gun potentially. my skin color wasnt obvious from where they were so it didnt play a factor at all. when a person is dealing with an authority figure who has a gun, it's smart to play ball.


the issue is, there are ways to handle the situation and still maintain some level of control. like i said though...the teen girl in the vid wasnt doing that at all. it's very easy to be able to get through a situation with police and still have your rights respected....but it's even easier to get pissy, lose control and make an error that makes is so you forfeit those rights. that's what i mean when people should be taught more about their rights and how to deal with police. it would make it easier for everybody, cops included.

those vids on youtube where people try to be dicks to cops by 'standing up for their rights' (think 'open carrying a rifle in public' kind of bullshit)...that's not the kind of thing im talking about .

[Kanda444]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Sometimes the best way to beat the law, is to actually abide by it.

EDIT: abide by it, i meant during the confrontation.

absolutely! the best thing to keep in mind is that you have the right to remain silent....use it. let the cops do their thing, let them set you up with a court date...then ask for a public defender and let them do the talking for you.

[TheVrist]

Originally Posted by Kanda444 ↗

absolutely! the best thing to keep in mind is that you have the right to remain silent....use it. let the cops do their thing, let them set you up with a court date...then ask for a public defender and let them do the talking for you.

Yep, people need to realize, practicing that simple right, it don't matter if they found a gram of dope, or a dead body in the trunk, just by following that procedure, increases your chances they will be the ones that fuck up.

[Kanda444]

Originally Posted by TheVrist ↗

Yep, people need to realize, practicing that simple right, it don't matter if they found a gram of dope, or a dead body in the trunk, just by following that procedure, increases your chances they will be the ones that fuck up.

one 'trick' i use when at a traffic stop (which hasnt happened in years but saved my ass the last time i got pulled over) is: when the cop asks 'do you know why i pulled you over?'....you dont say 'because i was speeding?' that would be an admission of fault. instead, you say 'i dont know, why am i being stopped sir?' and you let them tell you....because they know right off the bat if they have evidence of not and if they dont (which they sometimes do not), they dont have a case. if you admit to doing something wrong, that's all the evidence they need. this worked for my wife as well....she got hit for 'speeding' when really she wasnt so when the cop pulled her over and asked 'do you know why i stopped you' she said 'im not sure, honestly'...he told her she was speeding, she said 'i dont believe i was sir' and he said he would 'mail us a ticket' then lectured her about speeding. no ticket ever came. she wasnt speeding, there was no evidence to support the charge and she didnt admit fault. done deal.

[Nakatedonfelabrinak]

Putting your knee on someone's back putting your weight on her and shoving her face into the grass IS excessive force.
Telling her "On your face!" and then driving her face into the ground was at best unprofessional especially given the circumstances.

[GregK]

Doesn't any one have an answer?

With the, more frequent coverage of police brute, It seems to me the offending officer will most likely put on leave and/or eventually fired. Why are they never given criminal charges?

[GregK]

Originally Posted by rob666 ↗

I thought he was doing OK, till he lost his shit and pulled his gun He was out of control for a minute. Lethal force needed in that situation?

I don't know if the Cops can tell you to leave an area or not. Where I live, unless you're doing something illegal you have the right to be on public property.

She could of been packing heat in her bikini bottom