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US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry. 

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  #31  
Old 01-06-2015, 02:56 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Originally Posted by rob666 View Post
Yes, but........ That being the case why would we want to push them to starvation?
That is just it! Russia could go on an imperialistic rampage, all over the U.S trying to teach putin a lesson with sanctions.

What would we do then?

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  #32  
Old 01-06-2015, 03:33 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Originally Posted by TheVrist View Post
That is just it! Russia could go on an imperialistic rampage, all over the U.S trying to teach putin a lesson with sanctions.

What would we do then?
React I don't know what else we could do at that point. I think the key would be preventing it from reaching that point.
Right now we hold a lot of the cards. Everybody is focused on OPECs production, but they're actually not the biggest exporter anymore....... We can't just blame OPEC for not cutting production, their production has been holding steady....... It's American increased production that has lead to the global oversupply
At what point do we feel that we've proved our point and back off?

I dunno, I just don't like it when everybody starts looking for the next Hitler......... We need to remember that in the end, things didn't work out so well for Germany or Hitler. I think that most rational thinking dictators are aware of this
I've seen that analogy used as a pretext for military intervention too many times, it's the boogeyman that the average joe will identify with......... Just do some Nazi comparisons, get the people scared, and you've got the public behind your cause
Fear is a powerful motivator, it makes people stop thinking.

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  #33  
Old 01-06-2015, 04:23 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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So the potential for a cold war going hot is not a serious problem in your mind?

A lot of ethnic Russians want to be a part of Russia. Ukraine was invaded and is seeing aggression towards its sovereign state. It doesn't help matters the USA engineered this whole "democracy" thing.

The US has too many fingers in too many pies.

- Afghanistan
- Pakistan
- Iraq
- South China Sea
- Parts of Africa
- Mexico
- South America
- Libya
- Egypt
- Ukraine
- Syria

Notice how all of these places are now worse off than before US involvement?
Problem with calling them worse off is most people don't know how it really was before. Because the microscope wasn't put there till after.

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  #34  
Old 01-06-2015, 04:52 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

Its the ages old differing of cultural and political systems. The USSR/Russia has and always will be an industrial/military machine. Stalin managed to do in 30 years what would have taken the West 150-200 years to do, that is, turn a peasant country into an industrial/military machine and superpower. That is not going to change; its not like Russia can go from military production to civilian production overnight is it? Im disappointed deeply that we seem to have taken a giant leap backwards if US does indeed, put its IRBM's back in Europe after 23 years. Im disappointed deeply that the Cold War never really ended, and these START promises were just empty words. I really, somewhat foolishly optimistically, hoped that the days of Russia blaming the West for all of their internal problems were gone for good. Same old same old. Same script, different actors, thats all.

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  #35  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:13 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

IN DANGER OF?

at the current state the danger of someone pushing the red button is higher than it ever was during the cold war.

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  #36  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:49 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Originally Posted by ralucagymnast View Post
Its the ages old differing of cultural and political systems. The USSR/Russia has and always will be an industrial/military machine. Stalin managed to do in 30 years what would have taken the West 150-200 years to do, that is, turn a peasant country into an industrial/military machine and superpower. That is not going to change; its not like Russia can go from military production to civilian production overnight is it? Im disappointed deeply that we seem to have taken a giant leap backwards if US does indeed, put its IRBM's back in Europe after 23 years. Im disappointed deeply that the Cold War never really ended, and these START promises were just empty words. I really, somewhat foolishly optimistically, hoped that the days of Russia blaming the West for all of their internal problems were gone for good. Same old same old. Same script, different actors, thats all.
You realize in 1917 America wasn't a world power by anyone's imagination. And by 1947 exactly 30 years America was considered to be the world's most powerful nation. And that was with a great depression in the middle.

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  #37  
Old 01-06-2015, 08:03 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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You realize in 1917 America wasn't a world power by anyone's imagination. And by 1947 exactly 30 years America was considered to be the world's most powerful nation. And that was with a great depression in the middle.
Of course I realise that What IS remarkable though, and Im sure you will agree, that the USSR was able to marshal all its resources, which were very much lacking after the war, into building an atomic bomb in such a short time-scale? The Soviet Union was literally on its knees in 1945, but one thing that it was very good at was channeling all of its energies and materials into a project. The USA thought that the Soviets would never produce the a-bomb, so they were devastated when news reached them about the Soviet test, nicknamed Joe-1. Truman himself, when presented with the undeniable evidence, asked his advisors, "Are you sure? Are you sure?".

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  #38  
Old 01-06-2015, 09:23 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Originally Posted by niknik View Post
You realize in 1917 America wasn't a world power by anyone's imagination. And by 1947 exactly 30 years America was considered to be the world's most powerful nation. And that was with a great depression in the middle.
Thanks in large part to playing both sides on the war.
In any case because of the war.

And thus began the military industrial complex.

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Old 01-06-2015, 09:24 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Originally Posted by Lookdavook View Post
IN DANGER OF?

at the current state the danger of someone pushing the red button is higher than it ever was during the cold war.
Compared to the Cuban missile crisis....

Nah.

Now THAT was close.

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Old 01-06-2015, 11:12 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Happy New fucking Year to you too.




US and Russia in danger of returning to era of nuclear rivalry
American threats to retaliate for Russian development of new cruise missile take tensions to new level



Julian Borger
Julian Borger, diplomatic editor
The Guardian, Sunday 4 January 2015 18.00 GMT


Russian nuclear-powered submarine at Murmansk naval base A Russian nuclear-powered submarine at the Murmansk naval base. Photograph: Fedoseyev Lev/Itar-Tass Photo/Corbishttp://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/4/1420401029041/Russian-nuclear-powered-s-011.jpg


A widening rift between Moscow and Washington over cruise missiles and increasingly daring patrols by nuclear-capable Russian submarines threatens to end an era of arms control and bring back a dangerous rivalry between the world’s two dominant nuclear arsenals.

Tensions have been taken to a new level by US threats of retaliatory action for Russian development of a new cruise missile. Washington alleges it violates one of the key arms control treaties of the cold war, and has raised the prospect of redeploying its own cruise missiles in Europe after a 23-year absence.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...uclear-rivalry

Heres a thread for rob, nik, TheVrist, MrPoo, et al. You know who you are. Comments? I like your posts by the way. Good reading
Can I also draw your attention to the fact that this article mentions a guy called Pavel Podvig, who I have mentioned in quite a few posts pertaining to this type of stuff. He runs a website called http://www.russianforces.org/ which is a goldmine full of info about all of the Russian Strategic Forces; missiles, subs, planes, the lot,all updated frequently with news of launches etc., He wrote a book called Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces, oddly enough lol. I own a copy of it; I would defo recommend it to anyone even remotely interested in this stuff. Its not cheap, but I always value quality over quantity anyway. Book is here:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ssiannuclea-20
I personally feel it's more of a defensive strategy by Russia rather than an offensive one. As it stands we have a defense system that can eradicate any long range missile threats. If our defense system were to be used, we would surely retaliate against the offender and obliterate them. If Putin develops more advances weapons that we might not be able to stop, he actually becomes a threat us and that gives him more power. He's smart enough not to commit some kamikaze nuke war with the US.

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