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US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry. 

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Old 01-05-2015, 09:57 AM
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US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

Happy New fucking Year to you too.




US and Russia in danger of returning to era of nuclear rivalry
American threats to retaliate for Russian development of new cruise missile take tensions to new level



Julian Borger
Julian Borger, diplomatic editor
The Guardian, Sunday 4 January 2015 18.00 GMT


Russian nuclear-powered submarine at Murmansk naval base A Russian nuclear-powered submarine at the Murmansk naval base. Photograph: Fedoseyev Lev/Itar-Tass Photo/Corbishttp://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/1/4/1420401029041/Russian-nuclear-powered-s-011.jpg


A widening rift between Moscow and Washington over cruise missiles and increasingly daring patrols by nuclear-capable Russian submarines threatens to end an era of arms control and bring back a dangerous rivalry between the world’s two dominant nuclear arsenals.

Tensions have been taken to a new level by US threats of retaliatory action for Russian development of a new cruise missile. Washington alleges it violates one of the key arms control treaties of the cold war, and has raised the prospect of redeploying its own cruise missiles in Europe after a 23-year absence.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...uclear-rivalry

Heres a thread for rob, nik, TheVrist, MrPoo, et al. You know who you are. Comments? I like your posts by the way. Good reading
Can I also draw your attention to the fact that this article mentions a guy called Pavel Podvig, who I have mentioned in quite a few posts pertaining to this type of stuff. He runs a website called http://www.russianforces.org/ which is a goldmine full of info about all of the Russian Strategic Forces; missiles, subs, planes, the lot,all updated frequently with news of launches etc., He wrote a book called Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces, oddly enough lol. I own a copy of it; I would defo recommend it to anyone even remotely interested in this stuff. Its not cheap, but I always value quality over quantity anyway. Book is here:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ssiannuclea-20

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Old 01-05-2015, 10:35 AM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

The inevitable is about to begin. Perfect timing for Vlad to start pushing his weight , our president being on the back burner of his presidential term, he will be very evasive just to save face for the democratic party's primaries. So Russia will have looser reigns to run wild with for a while.

Putin is already working on drawing European support on an economical level. I'm sure he knows many of European countries would join forces in a war against the U.S, but if he could just get them to turn the other way.

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Old 01-05-2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

Slowly but surely Europe is figuring out that as a result of the western economic and financial blockade of Russian, it is Europe itself that is suffering the most. And while Germany was first to acknowledge this late in 2014 when its economy swooned and is now on the verge of a recession, now others are catching on. Case in point: the former head of the European Commission, and Italy’s former Prime Minister, Romano Prodi who told Messaggero newspaper that the “weaker Russian economy is extremely unprofitable for Italy.”

The other details from Prodi’s statement:

Lowered prices in the international energy markets have positive aspects for the Italian consumers, who pay less for the fuel, but the effect will be only short-term. In the long-term however the weaker economic situation in countries producing energy resources, caused by lower oil and gas prices, mostly in Russia, is extremely unprofitable for Italy, he said.
“The lowering of the oil and gas prices in combination with the sanctions, pushed by the Ukrainian crisis, will drop the Russian GPD by five percent per annum, and thus it will cause cutting of the Italian export by about 50%,” Prodi said.

“Setting aside the uselessness or imminence of the sanctions, one should highlight a clear skew: regardless of the rouble rate against dollar, which is lower by almost a half, the American export to Russia is growing, while the export from Europe is shrinking.”
In other words, just as slowly, the world is starting to grasp the bottom line: it is not the financial exposure to Russia, or the threat of financial contagion should Russia suffer a major recession or worse: it is something far simpler that will lead to the biggest harm for Europe’s countries. The lack of trade. Because while central banks can monetize everything, leading to an unprecedented asset bubble which if only for the time being boosts investor and consumer confidence, they can’t print trade – that all important driver of growth in a globalized world long before central banks were set to monetize over $1 trillion in bonds each and every year to mask the fact that the world is deep in a global depression.

Which is why we read the following report written in yesterday’s Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten with great interest because it goes right to the bottom line. In it Russia has a not so modest proposal to Europe: dump trade with the US, whose call for Russian “costs” has cost you another year of declining economic growth, and instead join the Eurasian Economic Union! From the source:

Russia has presented a startling proposal to overcome the tensions with the EU: The EU should renounce the free trade agreement with the United States TTIP and enter into a partnership with the newly established Eurasian Economic Union instead. A free trade zone with the neighbors would make more sense than a deal with the US.
It surely would, but then how will Europe feign outrage when the NSA is found to have spied yet again on its “closest trading partners?” Some more on Russia’s proposal from EUobserver:

Vladimir Chizhov told EUobserver: “Our idea is to start official contacts between the EU and the EAEU as soon as possible. [German] chancellor Angela Merkel talked about this not long ago. The EU sanctions [on Russia] are not a hindrance”.
“I think that common sense advises us to explore the possibility of establishing a common economic space in the Eurasian region, including the focus countries of the Eastern Partnership [an EU policy on closer ties with Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine]“.

“We might think of a free trade zone encompassing all of the interested parties in Eurasia”.

He described the new Russia-led bloc as a better partner for the EU than the US, with a dig at health standards in the US food industry.

“Do you believe it is wise to spend so much political energy on a free trade zone with the USA while you have more natural partners at your side, closer to home? We don’t even chlorinate our chickens”, the ambassador said.

The treaty establishing the Eurasian Union entered into life on Thursday (1 January).

It includes Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia, with Kyrgyzstan to join in May.

Modelled on the EU, it has a Moscow-based executive body, the Eurasian Economic Commission, and a political body, the Supreme Eurasian Economic Council, where member states’ leaders take decisions by unanimity.

It has free movement of workers and a single market for construction, retail, and tourism. Over the next 10 years, it aims to create a court in Minsk, a financial regulator in Astana and, possibly, to open Eurasian Economic Commission offices in Astana, Bishkek, Minsk, and Yerevan.

It also aims to launch free movement of capital, goods, and services, and to extend its single market to 40 other sectors, with pharmaceuticals next in line in 2016.
And as a reminder: The Eurasian Economic Union, a trade bloc of former Soviet states, expanded to four nations Friday when Armenia formally joined, a day after the union between Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan began.

So the ball is in your court, Europe: will it be a triple-dip (and soon thereafter quadruple: see Japan) recession as your Goldman-controlled central bank plunders ever more of what little is left of middle-class wealth with promises that this year - for real - is when it all turns around, or will Europe acknowledge it has had enough and shifts its strategic, and trade, focus from west (speaking of the TTIP, Germany’s agriculture minister just said “We can’t protect every sausage” referring to the TTIP) to east?

http://www.infowars.com/russias-star...conomic-union/

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:35 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

Very interesting post Vrist I like your posts, maximum respect to you, my friendWhat do you think is going to happen, on a serious note? Do you really think "the unthinkable" is actually possible? I dont. Just on a practical, commonsense scale; nuclear weapons are just too destructive. Obviously, as a deterrent theyre second to none, but I think that is their only role realistically. As an insurance policy against attack/invasion/other bad things. All of the consequences of a nuclear war have passed scrutiny of scientists in both East and West for over 30 years; however the unknown ramifications are just as important as those we have estimates for. So I highly doubt they will be used. But what do you think?

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:44 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

Very interesting read here guys.

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:48 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

I honestly don't think a full scale nuke war is possible anytime soon, namely because whoever pulls the trigger first will become public enemy #1 on a global scale. Even Europe would count their losses and point guns in the direction of the first.

On the other hand, we could end up in a decade long border conflict with Russia (insert territory here) in the near future, exchange of heavy War-peen burst fights. Eventually come to a win/lose/draw, and nuke threats will be the referee making sure both sides play by the rules.

WW3 is an deniable truth bound to happen, but it is unlikely the big dogs will be the deciding factor of when that happens. But contrary to popular beliefs, two major players in the nuke league can still go to war, and never use that level of play.

Most analysts believe we are heading in to an eventual territory war with Russia, Ukraine being the catalyst. The U.S still has treaties, and promises to uphold for them.

And if Putin can get most, if not all of Europe to stay out of it through Economical peace treaties, then he eliminates a lot of U.S power.

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Old 01-05-2015, 01:15 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Originally Posted by TheVrist View Post
I honestly don't think a full scale nuke war is possible anytime soon, namely because whoever pulls the trigger first will become public enemy #1 on a global scale. Even Europe would count their losses and point guns in the direction of the first.

On the other hand, we could end up in a decade long border conflict with Russia (insert territory here) in the near future, exchange of heavy War-peen burst fights. Eventually come to a win/lose/draw, and nuke threats will be the referee making sure both sides play by the rules.

WW3 is an deniable truth bound to happen, but it is unlikely the big dogs will be the deciding factor of when that happens. But contrary to popular beliefs, two major players in the nuke league can still go to war, and never use that level of play.

Most analysts believe we are heading in to an eventual territory war with Russia, Ukraine being the catalyst. The U.S still has treaties, and promises to uphold for them.

And if Putin can get most, if not all of Europe to stay out of it through Economical peace treaties, then he eliminates a lot of U.S power.
Thanks Vrist. I have said for ages that "total war" is obsolete; any wars now are chiefly economic wars, sanctions on sanctions upon sanctions, that type of thing. So you dont think I need to start digging a bomb shelter yet then lol?

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Old 01-05-2015, 01:15 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Very interesting read here guys.
Yeah, its an interesting article for sure isnt it?

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Old 01-05-2015, 01:31 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Thanks Vrist. I have said for ages that "total war" is obsolete; any wars now are chiefly economic wars, sanctions on sanctions upon sanctions, that type of thing. So you dont think I need to start digging a bomb shelter yet then lol?
Nah, I don't believe so. Only thing that concerns me, is when smaller, poorly socialized countries start getting their hands on lethal global weapons.

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Old 01-05-2015, 01:41 PM
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Re: US and RUSSIA in Danger of Returning to Era of Nuclear Rivalry.

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Nah, I don't believe so. Only thing that concerns me, is when smaller, poorly socialized countries start getting their hands on lethal global weapons.
Yep exactly; like India and Pakistan. And North Korea. Its estimated that even in 3/10ths of 1% of the worlds total nuclear yield (which is 5000 megatons by the way), it would emit enough black carbon and smoke, injected into the atmosphere, to affect global temperatures by as much as negative or positive 2. Dont think it sounds much? think again; it would significantly shorten growing seasons by as much as three weeks. It would disrupt the hydrological cycle by as much as 45%. And that wouldnt be good. At all. So yeah, even a small, regional nuclear conflict would be catastrophic on an unprecedented scale. The fact is hasnt happened is actually something mankind should take credit for to be honest. We've made it this far, which to me proves we cant be all that bad.

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