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Threatening Rape = Free Speech? 

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  #21  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:55 AM
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Re: Threatening Rape = Free Speech

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Originally Posted by xstunt1ngx View Post
The worst people are the Westboro Baptist Church, they spew out all this hate, claiming it's in the bible that some people should die, I wonder what bible they're reading though? Don't get me wrong I can tolerate every religious person to a certain extent, but when they start using bibles/Koran in their defense for saying things, this is when I get annoyed. Remember when some Muslim said it was Allahs will to hit women or something, WOW.
They have years of inbreeding though too so that doesn't help. All it took was a couple of them to be screwed up and teach it to their kids all their life and then the beliefs become the kid's beliefs too.

A lot of these crazy religious people remind me of high school English teachers that interpret tons lines in a book to have some deep significant meaning and swear the author was trying to convey stuff in every line when in reality it was simpler than that but the teachers let their minds wander.

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  #22  
Old 08-12-2012, 01:44 AM
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Re: Threatening Rape = Free Speech

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Originally Posted by pbaj12 View Post
They have years of inbreeding though too so that doesn't help. All it took was a couple of them to be screwed up and teach it to their kids all their life and then the beliefs become the kid's beliefs too.

A lot of these crazy religious people remind me of high school English teachers that interpret tons lines in a book to have some deep significant meaning and swear the author was trying to convey stuff in every line when in reality it was simpler than that but the teachers let their minds wander.
Lmao so true on that last point, damn english teachers.

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  #23  
Old 08-12-2012, 09:42 AM
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Threatening Rape = Free Speech

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Originally Posted by pbaj12 View Post
They have years of inbreeding though too so that doesn't help. All it took was a couple of them to be screwed up and teach it to their kids all their life and then the beliefs become the kid's beliefs too.

A lot of these crazy religious people remind me of high school English teachers that interpret tons lines in a book to have some deep significant meaning and swear the author was trying to convey stuff in every line when in reality it was simpler than that but the teachers let their minds wander.
You'd hope their kids would make up their own mind as they became adults. Mad isn't it? If everything is God's will, why are WE given free will, choice, knowledge, understanding, logic, reason? Very bizarre. Seems the people who simply say 'it's God's will' fear their own understanding or want to sort of legitimately back-up what they do. I don't buy it. On a side note, the only people I think SHOULD die are murderers, sex cases involving children, repeat rapists and terrorist extremists with a view to kill. These are not people, but vile despicable creatures. You don't even have to be religious to think that, from what I've read on this site!

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  #24  
Old 08-12-2012, 09:45 AM
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Threatening Rape = Free Speech

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Originally Posted by xstunt1ngx View Post
Lmao so true on that last point, damn english teachers.
Agh! You'll give me nightmares about A level English! "Analysing" Shakespeare - NOOOOOO!!

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  #25  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:00 PM
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Re: Threatening Rape = Free Speech?

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Originally Posted by slash4321 View Post
Not exactly. Obviously free speech is crucial in a democracy; hate speech however, is not.

Please explain to me how the utterance that 'black people are not welcome in [insert country], because they are [insert perjorative]' is anything but hate speech, which is unecessary in a democratoc society, in fact, I'd argue it is the antithesis of a democractic value. Why? Because it infringes upon guarenteed rights of other people, that are equally important to free speech.
here my other post
http://www.documentingreality.com/fo...ml#post3128090
read it.

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Originally Posted by slash4321 View Post
Of course, you can't stop people from saying anything, but somethings must be criminal, and rightly so. People who use racial slurs (for example) and then attempt to hide behind free speech are abusrd and not deserving of that protection.

As I made clear, mentioning the Holocaust was just an example and i'm sure you can understand that it would be perennial, listing every example
The example you give in contrast is ridiculous. Nobody is a Stalinist atrocity denier?! But, I imagine if someone did start denying Stalin's acts of racial genoicide, they'd be pissing off a few countries! I think, for example, Ukraine and Poland would be quick to quash the denial, should they not?
You clearly don't see that Stalin, Lenin and everyone else who started communism, were in fact jewish. It has nothing to do with denying the horrors. It has something to do with be a wimpy little faggot and exaggerate something what has been done to himself and almost totally be silent about what he has done to others. Everyone who point at it and the things he does now are being made silent with censorship and Antisemitism by those sitting on the highest thrones. Don't you see the limitations and what it can cause, if you can't name someone? What if you break up with your girlfriend/boyfriend because he/she fucked a ton of people when they were with you, but you can't even point that out to others, so they run into the same trap and get their life ruined too? The naming someone bad names would be considered hate speech by many.

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Originally Posted by slash4321 View Post
Anyhow, free speech is rarely limited (in Europe anyway), the European Court of Human Rights are releuctant to restrict the extent of it. So, I don't really see what your issue is anyway?
Stop believing in Human Rights fairy tale, they are only made to be an excuse to attack foreign countries to install their own government and breaking those same human right to maintain it.
How can FREE speech be LIMITED, is that what you believe? free=limited?

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Originally Posted by slash4321 View Post
You have got to stop saying that, it's laughable and people won't take you seriously! But, I am intruiged as to which truth in particular i'm in fear of. Enlighten me!
You people fear the truth, you want to ban it.

It is not important what truth, as long as it is truth. Do you really believe in all that bs your government is telling you? That all arabs are some savages and terrorists? That libya or any other "bad arabic countries, who don't want to give us oil and don't want to oppress their citizens, who are not saudi arabia who do both things and are our allies" had a dictator, who terrorized everyone? That everyone is equal in anything? Equality can't be achieved. You are better than me in certain things, I am better than you in other things. So is everyone else.

Do you know why many Arabs are in fact "terrorists"? Because the western world is attacking them and destroying their culture, history and society in the name of peace, democracy and human rights.

and now for something completely different

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Originally Posted by xstunt1ngx View Post
This is why I hate religion, and Christians the most, they will back anything up with "It's in the bible", too bad they interpret verses from the bible in such a fucked up way.
Don't hate religion. Religion is something humans need. You hate in fact judo-christianity. You are right there, hate it, because it makes you to be gods slave, accepting and enduring suffering without even the will to fight back.
There are our pre-christian religions, which come in form of Neopaganism. They uphold your strength and other attributes and show you the way how your race lived. It is your history, the bible is the jewish history, because everyone there is a jew and it happens somewhere around palestina, nothing about your past.
This is what you should seek. It doesn't matter if you believe any gods are real or not, only the idea of someone watching and guiding you, makes you get that extra courage to risk something.

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  #26  
Old 08-12-2012, 12:43 PM
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Re: Threatening Rape = Free Speech?

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Stop believing in Human Rights fairy tale, they are only made to be an excuse to attack foreign countries to install their own government and breaking those same human right to maintain it.
How can FREE speech be LIMITED, is that what you believe? free=limited?
Everything is limited. There is also no true freedom. Never, nowhere.

Human rights are more than what you say; if you were right, then the US World Police Force would be at the throat of every single Arab country, China, Corea, the entire African continent.

Now speaking of Arabs, you are wrong again. They are a) not all Arabs, but Muslims, and b) explicitely state that their terrorist attacks are in the name of their religious ideals, not to defend their culture. They further explain that their religion dictates spreading it and forcing it upon others. Whether that is indeed the case, is another matter entirely, but they do use that excuse.
Have you never heard Palestinian terrorists speak? All they want, is kill Jews because they're the "sons of pigs and monkeys" as they put it, and because they themselves "drink blood" - quoting the terrorists here. At no point did they say it was because Western civilization encroaches upon their culture, since it hardly does as long as their culture stays in THEIR countries. They explicitely state that they hate us for Muhammad hating us.
Stop your apologism. Religious and political fanaticism is all that Islamic terrorism comes down to. After all, Western cultures do far more harm in African countries, regardless of local religion, than they do in Muslim countries, yet you don't see Congolese people putting planes into buildings.

Also, why should that not be plausible when you look at how they treat their own? Stoning for adultery? Hanging for homosexuality? Beating for immodest dress? Excuse me, but terrorism in the name of that same ideology seems incredible to you..?


The things you say humans need religion for, can be found elsewhere as well, even more so when the constraints of religion are dumped and shit is faced and dealt with rather than brushed off as God's will. Unless of course, yourself, your loved ones or other real, tangible things in life, aren't worth fighting for...

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:41 PM
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Re: Threatening Rape = Free Speech?

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Originally Posted by Lieberfrau View Post
Nothing has caused 1984, because 1984 the year lies in the past and 1984 the events are fictional, but getting away with hate speech and racist slurs did contribute to Hitler's success and that of many others like him.
So much for your political concerns.

Germany has no freedom issues for restricting hate speech and personal insults. It's called "being legally required to respect another person's integrity" and doesn't seem like a bad concept to me or any sane, intelligent person who does manage to communicate without deliberately hateful blows below the belt. There is rarely ever a need or excuse for that, so why should people get away with this when all it boils down to, is bullying?
Its not a bad concept, but its also not a clear concept. Different people have different ideas of what constitutes "hate speech", or "bullying". Its extremely easy for governments to abuse these concepts- Hitler's rise to power rested on his ability to silence dissent, and his PROMOTION of hate speech. There is a difference between a society that allows unpopular opinions and one that condones them. Maybe it works on places like this board to punish people for bigoted speech, but unlike the mods here the government has plenty of special interests and reasons for them to abuse that power.
If this was just about trying to get people to be nicer to each other, I'd be all for it. But its not, and it will never be, because the legal system is much more complex than that and society is much more complex than that.
Also, I would agree that threats of violence can be punishable. That is specifically because they implicate physical violence directed specifically towards someone else. An opinion being voiced is not implicating directed violence.

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Old 08-12-2012, 05:51 PM
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Re: Threatening Rape = Free Speech?

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Originally Posted by evilion View Post
Don't hate religion. Religion is something humans need.
I laughed at this... A LOT! It seems to be a paradox that you want unadulterated freedom, yet you make such a ridiculous claim that we need religion - the very essence of living in abjection.

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Originally Posted by evilion View Post
Stop believing in Human Rights fairy tale, they are only made to be an excuse to attack foreign countries to install their own government and breaking those same human right to maintain it.
You have no idea what you're talking about!? If you want make such a claim then please, provide evidence. You won't be able to.
But, if you'd like to live in a country that doesn't protect its citizens human rights, then go and live in Iran et al!

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Originally Posted by evilion View Post
Right, so you decline that people of Israel do the same things? Threating their women like shit
I think you are mixing Israel up with Iran

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Originally Posted by evilion View Post
You clearly don't see that Stalin, Lenin and everyone else who started communism, were in fact jewish.
I'm not sure what institution you were educated at, but, that is plainly incorrect. 'The Father of communism' Karl Marx was athiest, as was Lenin. Nothing to do with Judaism; please don't tell me you're another anit-semite... blame the Jews for everything! Ignorance at its finest

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Originally Posted by evilion View Post
It is not important what truth, as long as it is truth. Do you really believe in all that bs your government is telling you? That all arabs are some savages and terrorists? That libya or any other "bad arabic countries, who don't want to give us oil and don't want to oppress their citizens, who are not saudi arabia who do both things and are our allies" had a dictator, who terrorized everyone? That everyone is equal in anything? Equality can't be achieved. You are better than me in certain things, I am better than you in other things. So is everyone else.
Ahh, did I say any of those things? Did I imply I thought any of those things? No, you made the assumption that because I believe there are limits on free speech, that somehow I believe all Arabs are terrorists... What are you talking about?! Your arguments seem to take logically fallacious detours through total bullshit!

BTW, if you think that Gaddafi wasn't dictatorial then you clearly haven't so much as waltzed on over to wikipedia, let alone read anything about him... He the population in complete ignorance, you would have fit right in!

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Originally Posted by evilion View Post
It is not important what truth, as long as it is truth.
Don't be too vague.. Please stop making these ridiculous statements!

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