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More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel 

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  #21  
Old 08-16-2011, 11:27 PM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

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And children for lunch.
Yeah i heard that too but thought it was a bit over the top!!

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  #22  
Old 08-16-2011, 11:35 PM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

On the nuclear issue i don't see how it is any one elses business. How can the posessors of such weaponry justify not allowing other nations to research and aquire tham also? Everyone thinks Australia does not posess nuclear weapons but we do. We don't have any ICBM's but we do have access to nuclear tipped tomahawk missiles. The Lucas Heights reactor does more than create radioactive isotopes for the medical industry.

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  #23  
Old 08-17-2011, 02:39 AM
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I didn't mean to. But no, I don't know how much I agree with the last sentence. I think Israel's possession of nuclear weapons gives Iran a welcomed "caucus belli" for developing their own. I mean, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think Iran would stop developing nuclear weapons even if Israel was wiped off the face of the planet tomorrow. They have, and other counties like them have, developed their (modern) national identities around opposing the west. And there will never be a short supply of western nations.
So why is the Israeli air force allowed to launch preemptive strikes on nations that might acquire nuclear weapons, but Palestinians who simply want Israel to remain withink the 1967 borders (thus not breaking international law) labelled terrorists? Is this not just massive hypocrisy only made possible because they are America's client state?

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Old 08-17-2011, 04:33 AM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

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So why is the Israeli air force allowed to launch preemptive strikes on nations that might acquire nuclear weapons, but Palestinians who simply want Israel to remain withink the 1967 borders (thus not breaking international law) labelled terrorists?
I think its to dehumanize them. And I think its intentional, too. If you tell the world that a political party is really a terrorist organization, than it delegitimizes them. Hamas and Hezbollah...the Lebanese Phalanges...they're all political parties and they have all employed terrorist tactics to further their cause. By the way, two are designated as terrorist organizations and the other one isnt (as least as far as I know), probably because they're Christian.

But even though I know these things to be true, and even though I'd probably do the same things they do if I was in their position (if I was guaranteed that I wasnt going to die), I still have a strong, personal disgust for Hamas and Hezbollah. I can not throw my sympathies behind any political party as far right as they are. And they are undoubtedly far right. They remind me of the Iron Guard of Romania - they're defined first by their hate, and second by their religion. If the Palestinians get their freedom (hopefully more of a when than if) and they choose to be governed by a dictator, then I'm sure their situation will be more normal than it is now. But if they settle on a Hamas or a Hezbollah, than I'm convinced that they will be worse off than they are now.

As far as US-Israeli relations go, I don't know much about them, so I can't really comment. I'm sure it has its origins in being afraid of communists or some shit.

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  #25  
Old 08-18-2011, 06:03 PM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

blah blah blah, as the average american, who really gives a shit??? our economy in the toilet, construction down, and assholes in washington living high on the hog. fuck 'em.

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  #26  
Old 08-18-2011, 09:34 PM
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blah blah blah, as the average american, who really gives a shit??? our economy in the toilet, construction down, and assholes in washington living high on the hog. fuck 'em.
Hey, you're like a real salt of the earth kind of guy.

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  #27  
Old 08-19-2011, 02:29 AM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

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Originally Posted by fenek View Post
I think its to dehumanize them. And I think its intentional, too. If you tell the world that a political party is really a terrorist organization, than it delegitimizes them. Hamas and Hezbollah...the Lebanese Phalanges...they're all political parties and they have all employed terrorist tactics to further their cause. By the way, two are designated as terrorist organizations and the other one isnt (as least as far as I know), probably because they're Christian.

But even though I know these things to be true, and even though I'd probably do the same things they do if I was in their position (if I was guaranteed that I wasnt going to die), I still have a strong, personal disgust for Hamas and Hezbollah. I can not throw my sympathies behind any political party as far right as they are. And they are undoubtedly far right. They remind me of the Iron Guard of Romania - they're defined first by their hate, and second by their religion. If the Palestinians get their freedom (hopefully more of a when than if) and they choose to be governed by a dictator, then I'm sure their situation will be more normal than it is now. But if they settle on a Hamas or a Hezbollah, than I'm convinced that they will be worse off than they are now.

As far as US-Israeli relations go, I don't know much about them, so I can't really comment. I'm sure it has its origins in being afraid of communists or some shit.
Hezbollah is, essentially, an Iranian proxy. I recommend reading The Secret War With Iran, by Ronan Bergman (an Israeli) for a detailed account of the situation out there. Hamas have been more reluctant to accept help from the Iranians, but they have done so more recently out of necessity.

The only thing stopping a Palestinian settlement is America not vetoing it, like they've done consistently over the years. With regards to US-Israeli relations, in the early days, US strategists were actually cautious about forging too strong a tie as they thought it might alienate the rest of the region and harm US interests. Those thoughts now look prophetic.

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  #28  
Old 08-21-2011, 01:17 AM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

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Originally Posted by Blewvane View Post
Maybe you misread this - The settlements are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this. Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967, and annexed East Jerusalem, a move not recognised by the international community. This means they DO NOT OWN THIS LAND!!! How much clearer do you want it explained?
Nor does palistine, since they are not even a recognized country . The land was taken in war, it belongs too the victor. Just as England has no claim to the colonies, Spain has no claim to mexico.

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  #29  
Old 08-21-2011, 01:48 AM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

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Originally Posted by dan-b View Post
So why is the Israeli air force allowed to launch preemptive strikes on nations that might acquire nuclear weapons, but Palestinians who simply want Israel to remain withink the 1967 borders (thus not breaking international law) labelled terrorists? Is this not just massive hypocrisy only made possible because they are America's client state?
because some countries have vowed to use them.

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  #30  
Old 08-21-2011, 01:49 AM
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Re: More Brazen Illegal Activity from Israel

Countdown to War

On May 15, Israel's Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared for battle along the Golan Heights.

Nasser ordered the UN Emergency Force (UNEF), stationed in the Sinai since 1956 as a buffer between Israeli and Egyptian forces after Israel’s withdrawal following the Sinai Campaign, to withdraw on May 16. Without bringing the matter to the attention of the General Assembly (as his predecessor had promised), Secretary-General U Thant complied with the demand. After the withdrawal of the UNEF, the Voice of the Arabs radio station proclaimed on May 18, 1967:

As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is total war, which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence.(6)

An enthusiastic echo was heard May 20 from Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad:

Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.(7)

The Blockade

On May 22, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping and all ships bound for Eilat. This blockade cut off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopped the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran.

In 1956, the United States gave Israel assurances that it recognized the Jewish State's right of access to the Straits of Tiran. In 1957, at the UN, 17 maritime powers declared that Israel had a right to transit the Strait. Moreover, the blockade violated the Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958.(8)

President Johnson expressed the belief that the blockade was illegal and unsuccessfully tried to organize an international flotilla to test it. At the same time, he advised the Israelis not to take any military action. After the war, he acknowledged the closure of the Strait of Tiran was the casus belli (June 19, 1967):

If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Strait of Tiran would be closed. The right of innocent maritime passage must be preserved for all nations.(9)

Escalation

Nasser was aware of the pressure he was exerting to force Israel’s hand, and challenged Israel to fight almost daily. The day after the blockade was set up, he said defiantly: "The Jews threaten to make war. I reply: Welcome! We are ready for war."(10)

Nasser challenged Israel to fight almost daily. "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight," he said on May 27.(11) The following day, he added: "We will not accept any...coexistence with Israel...Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel....The war with Israel is in effect since 1948."(12)

King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30. Nasser then announced:

The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.(13)

President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq joined in the war of words: "The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map."(14) On June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

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