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Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11 

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  #41  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:00 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

So if one fetus is successfully aborted at 24 weeks and another fetus is born and survives at 23 weeks, then what you are saying is that anatomical development is irrelevant to define a fetus-- only on which side of that "Berlin wall" of "tissue" matters? How ironic that it is just a "tissue" (the womb) that defines that a fetus is also just a "tissue." (Fetuses are not tissue because tissues compose organs and organs compose organ systems and organ systems compose organisms--- all of which save organisms are present within a fetus as early as 22-48 days after gestation.) Are you saying that 1 month > is "late term?"

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  #42  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:05 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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....effectively forcing your opinion of it on other people, which is just wrong.
You do realize that you are forcing your opinion on me for my opinion that there is nothing inherently "wrong" with forcing your opinion on someone else, right?

There can be no such thing as objective "wrong" if there is no such thing as morality. There can be no such thing as OBJECTIVE morality (aka the concept of of absolute good and evil) if there is no sovereign and legitimate Moral Arbiter.

There can be no objective concept of what constitutes "wrong" if humanity nominates itself as Arbiter to draft its own universal moral constitution as humanity could never agree on a set standard and even if it could it would not be backed in transcendent stock. So I guess what my question to you is "Who says it is wrong" and why is this "Who" legitimately endowed to make that call?

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  #43  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:17 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

It's crazy. Driving to another state is, like, impossible, you know? Other states have , like, walls and guards and attack dogs and missiles and won't let anyone travel anywhere.








Honestly, people who are pissing and moaning about this can do a crazy thing like move to another state, or vote.

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  #44  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:20 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by Ninja Delusion View Post
So if one fetus is successfully aborted at 24 weeks (which is not late term by law) and another fetus is born at 23 weeks, then what you are saying that anatomical development is irrelevant to define a fetus-- only on which side of that "Berlin wall" of "tissue" matters? How ironic that it is just a "tissue" (the womb) that defines that a fetus is also just a "tissue." (Fetuses are not tissue because tissues compose organs and organs compose organ systems and organ systems compose organisms--- all of which are present within a fetus as early as 22-48 days after gestation.) Are you saying that 1 month > is "late term?"
When a fetus is viable to survive outside the womb UNASSISTED, it is an infant. In the natural order of things no child, ever has survived at 23 or 24 weeks. You cannot force your morality on women by not allowing them to make the choice for their own abortion.

When you grow tits, a vagina and a uterus you're allowed to comment on this topic. The human is a parasite for 9 months. When it's born, it's your son or daughter. Until then it's a parasite.

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  #45  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:21 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by Devil Mantis666 View Post
Wow I love that analogy!! Thank you Mortalitas =]
You're welcome

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  #46  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:31 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by rottenflesh View Post
It's crazy. Driving to another state is, like, impossible, you know? Other states have , like, walls and guards and attack dogs and missiles and won't let anyone travel anywhere.

Honestly, people who are pissing and moaning about this can do a crazy thing like move to another state, or vote.
Lol very true. But the outrage some people have isn't the getting there part. It's that they are taking away their right to abort by shutting down the clinics except for one or 2 in the state.

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  #47  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:37 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by Mortalitas View Post
When a fetus is viable to survive outside the womb UNASSISTED, it is an infant. In the natural order of things no child, ever has survived at 23 or 24 weeks. You cannot force your morality on women by not allowing them to make the choice for their own abortion.

When you grow tits, a vagina and a uterus you're allowed to comment on this topic. The human is a parasite for 9 months. When it's born, it's your son or daughter. Until then it's a parasite.
So then a patient hooked up to a respirator in intensive care with terminal lung cancer un-becomes a "person" because they cannot sustain life unassisted? Who certified that standard? Lol. What about people on dialysis or those who require organ donation?

As far as forcing morality goes: ALL LAW is imputed morality. If you are absolutely true to your words, you must therefore be pro-anarchy.

Your criterion that one must be female to matter is extremely dubious. What you suggest is that moral discernment itself is respected to persons--that is I am incapable of interpreting morality because it does not affect me directly.

Does this mean that if I had a wife, and she cheated on me and I put her to death, that nobody who had never had their wife cheat on them has a right to make a moral call here unless they too had been in the same shoes? Once again--every law is imposed morality.

Also, the pro-choice woman's opinion is offset by that of pro-life women. By removing me personally from the equation, its clear that nothing you have said really "simplified" or nullified any claims I made as there are many women who agree with me, logically speaking.

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  #48  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:03 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by Ninja Delusion View Post
So then a patient hooked up to a respirator in intensive care with terminal lung cancer un-becomes a "person" because they cannot sustain life unassisted? Who certified that standard? Lol. What about people on dialysis or those who require organ donation?

As far as forcing morality goes: ALL LAW is imputed morality. If you are absolutely true to your words, you must therefore be pro-anarchy.

Your criterion that one must be female to matter is extremely dubious. What you suggest is that moral discernment itself is respected to persons--that is I am incapable of interpreting morality because it does not affect me directly.

Does this mean that if I had a wife, and she cheated on me and I put her to death, that nobody who had never had their wife cheat on them has a right to make a moral call here unless they too had been in the same shoes? Once again--every law is imposed morality.

Also, the pro-choice woman's opinion is offset by that of pro-life women. By removing me personally from the equation, its clear that nothing you have said really "simplified" or nullified any claims I made as there are many women who agree with me, logically speaking.
I love how you're comparing the murder of one's wife to abortion. Lmao. A person on dialysis is a fully formed, full conscious human being. A foetus is not. A foetus that young never was able to survive unassisted, has never had a thought. It is a completely different situation. You're really grasping at straws to try to prove your religiously inspired views. You're basing your arguments on the idea that early term abortion is murder. It is not murder. Anyway, you bore me. I'm not going to change your views. I'm just thankful that people like you aren't in power, and that you are never going to be able to make a woman's decision on abortion for her.

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  #49  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:01 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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I love how you're comparing the murder of one's wife to abortion.Lmao.
Go back and read it one more time niiiiice and slow. Try not to let your prejudices add to the actual words I typed. I was demonstrating that by your logic, you would not have a right to spout your two cents on an extreme like that unless your life was qualified by similar experiences. The fact that the example contained murder was irrelevant except that its an "obvious" extreme used to make my point clear.

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A person on dialysis is a fully formed, full conscious human being. A foetus is not. A foetus that young never was able to survive unassisted, has never had a thought. It is a completely different situation.
You just love adding arbitrary rules and qualifiers. Although I will contend your claim that a fetus has not the capacity to "think" nor is fully formed.

I love being a broken record. As stated earlier in this very thread, brain waves are detected by day 48 and REM dream waves are detected by the 17th week. As far as being not fully formed:

1. Anatomical development is virtually complete by week 12 (3 months of 9) and the remainder of the pregnancy is spent "growing" in large part--not "forming."

2. Some people are altogether born "incomplete" with missing limbs etc. and if I want to be more extreme in reasoning, I could say that 1 year olds do not have their teeth or at least not all of them, and lets not forget about puberty! When does "development" really end? When decomposition begins?

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You're really grasping at straws to try to prove your religiously inspired views. You're basing your arguments on the idea that early term abortion is murder. It is not murder. Anyway, you bore me. I'm not going to change your views. I'm just thankful that people like you aren't in power, and that you are never going to be able to make a woman's decision on abortion for her.
You a professional painter by chance? First, "religion" has absolutely nothing to do with my interpretation of abortion as murder. Keep on making this about me and not the issue, though. It makes me feel really good that you think I am as big as the issue for you to shift the attention like that. And for the ten thousandth time---"religion" inspired "views" are ultimately inspired by HUMAN BEINGS WHO PREDATE THE FUCKING RELIGION ITSELF, thus your theophobic blame game is void.

Oh and please tell me you had a /trollface when you said that. Although consistent with most religious views, that they were somehow "inspired" by religion as if it is impossible to come to the conclusion that abortion is murder independently? All of my arguments come from science, logical progression, or other exercises in speculation. How many Bible verses did you see me cite when I was "trying to prove [my] religious views?"

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  #50  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:28 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

Although I am very much so pro-abortion...or whatever...I got to say, I think Ninja Delusion's arguments are stronger.

I think the biggest obstacle pro-choice people face lies within the name - the right to 'choose' is a luxury of our modern democratic society, whereas the right to kill has never, with the exception of things like war and defense, been a standard in any society ever.

I think the best arguments for abortion are found in practical reasons and technical ones, like 'what makes a person a person?'

What does make a person a person?

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