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Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11 

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  #31  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:21 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

You mean like how you are telling me not to choose to exercise my first amendment right (something that is actually present in the constitution?)

The problem with the whole libertarian bullshit dichotomy is that if you apply that philosophy here, you must apply it to pretty much every other action done within one's own dominion in principal, hence anarchy. We could apply the same arbitrary bullshit to everything from smoking (you fucking up my air) to taxes to the extreme of not charging a parent with neglect because he "chooses" to refuse to spend his "hard earned money" providing for his kids (not to mention the logical failure of a man not having the right to "choose" when it comes to child support seeing as he can neither default to adoption or require an abortion) Yeah, we can extend that principle of not infringing on other people's choices to everything to keep both sides of the equation proportional rather than picking and choosing what bullshit we will call "choice" and what we will conveniently reject under that pretense. It can further be argued that because the unborn are "human," they are also heir to constitutional rights.

I'm not the one bound by some subjective moral qualm against telling others how to "choose" in that respect--that "moral" simulacra is subjective to your brand of self-appointed philoso-religion.

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  #32  
Old 07-07-2011, 04:53 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

An under-aged girl who gets knocked up has the "right" to "choose" to have an abortion on the basis of "it's my body," but the same girl does not have the "right" to "choose" to have sex with an 18 or 19 year old man in the first place despite the basis that "it's my body." How very consistent.

The magic age of consent is based on what exactly? And why does it get a pass to violate the sanctity of Choice-Almighty? Lol. Arbitration of arbitrations; Contradiction of contradictions.

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  #33  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:08 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Delusion View Post
You mean like how you are telling me not to choose to exercise my first amendment right (something that is actually present in the constitution?)
As an aside:
Your "First amendment Right" doesn't exist on the internet.

Can you spew racial epithets here?
No?

Quote:
The problem with the whole libertarian bullshit dichotomy is that if you apply that philosophy here, you must apply it to pretty much every other action done within one's own dominion in principal, hence anarchy.
Right, because Abortions = Anarchy.
Quote:
We could apply the same arbitrary bullshit to everything from smoking (you fucking up my air) to taxes to the extreme of not charging a parent with neglect because he "chooses" to refuse to spend his "hard earned money" providing for his kids (not to mention the logical failure of a man not having the right to "choose" when it comes to child support seeing as he can neither default to adoption or require an abortion)
Smoking is taxed to shit in Canada, I don't know about the states.

I'm of the opinion that if the father gets it in writing(Notarised) that he wanted to abort the kid, or put it up for adoption and the mother keeps it:
He's free & clear.
It is a bit of a double standard in that the woman has all the control when it comes to the baby.
I say "A bit" because they are the one that has to carry it to term, but they also have the final say as to what happens to the kid.
Quote:
Yeah, we can extend that principle of not infringing on other people's choices to everything to keep both sides of the equation proportional rather than picking and choosing what bullshit we will call "choice" and what we will conveniently reject under that pretense. It can further be argued that because the unborn are "human," they are also heir to constitutional rights.
I'm also of the opinion that laws are there to protect stupid people.
Laws effectively remove the "Survival of the fittest" aspect of our society.

Well, laws and warning labels.
If some idiot wants to drink bleach: I say let them.

Quote:
I'm not the one bound by some subjective moral qualm against telling others how to "choose" in that respect--that "moral" simulacra is subjective to your brand of self-appointed philoso-religion.
I'm not religious in the slightest bit.

In fact, I view religion the same way I view people drinking alcohol or smoking weed.

They're all coping mechanisms.
Reality is harsh, people need crutches to keep going.

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  #34  
Old 07-07-2011, 05:27 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

Quote:
As an aside:
Your "First amendment Right" doesn't exist on the internet.

Can you spew racial epithets here?
No?
Actually it appears that you can. I have read quite a few racial remarks here over the years. And once again, you are inviting an umbrella when I already stated once that the context of this thread is legislation within the United States. Nice try.


Quote:
Right, because Abortions = Anarchy.
Read it again and try to bridle your prejudices so that the words speak for themselves this time. I said the claim that abortion is valid because we exalt "choice" should then be applied to all kinds of bullshit to be FAIR and consistent. What I said was that anarchy is a domino/ripple affect of opening that kind of floodgate.

Quote:
Smoking is taxed to shit in Canada, I don't know about the states.
Apart from sales tax? not in any state I am aware of. The point is, taxed or not someone's choice to smoke infringes on my "right" to clean air.

Quote:
I'm of the opinion that if the father gets it in writing(Notarised) that he wanted to abort the kid, or put it up for adoption and the mother keeps it:
He's free & clear.
It is a bit of a double standard in that the woman has all the control when it comes to the baby.
I say "A bit" because they are the one that has to carry it to term, but they also have the final say as to what happens to the kid.
I think men should be compelled to care for their children whether or not they want them. The consequences of the same "choice" I said that women make when they choose to have sex certainly should apply to men. But I was only saying to be consistent, its bullshit to not let men opt out of it. I think we agree here more or less.

Quote:
I'm also of the opinion that laws are there to protect stupid people.
Laws effectively remove the "Survival of the fittest" aspect of our society.

Well, laws and warning labels.
If some idiot wants to drink bleach: I say let them.
I think its more than just protection for the stupid. There is no point in getting into this digression though.


Quote:
I'm not religious in the slightest bit.

In fact, I view religion the same way I view people drinking alcohol or smoking weed.

They're all coping mechanisms.
Reality is harsh, people need crutches to keep going.
To dissect this claim, I'm going to cover two mutually exclusive scenarios:

1. A given religion actually is "true."
If this is the case, then it is self-evident that your claim is void.

2. All religions are complete and utter bullshit.
If this statement is true, then what really distinguishes ideologies and mentalities which are inspired by myth from those that aren't? The authors of those myths had their own self-determined prejudices and ideas about right and wrong the same as you and I. If Man made God, then ultimately the "Word of God" is the "Word of Man" which is fundamentally equal to the word of Hvergelmir. So you cannot disqualify one philosophy with your own perspective just because that philosophy has its inspiration in theological mythology while yours originated in contemporary society. Its like playing rock paper scissors and saying "my rock beats your rock" because your rock is formed with the left hand and mine, the right.

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  #35  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:08 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Delusion View Post
Actually it appears that you can. I have read quite a few racial remarks here over the years. And once again, you are inviting an umbrella when I already stated once that the context of this thread is legislation within the United States. Nice try.
People get banned for it, if they do it enough.

Quote:
Read it again and try to bridle your prejudices so that the words speak for themselves this time. I said the claim that abortion is valid because we exalt "choice" should then be applied to all kinds of bullshit to be FAIR and consistent. What I said was that anarchy is a domino/ripple affect of opening that kind of floodgate.
Again:
How is allowing choice equitable to anarchy?

Quote:
Apart from sales tax? not in any state I am aware of. The point is, taxed or not someone's choice to smoke infringes on my "right" to clean air.
If they're not blowing it in your face, or the air intakes for the building you're in:
You have no right to complain.
This is doubly true if you drive.

Quote:
I think men should be compelled to care for their children whether or not they want them. The consequences of the same "choice" I said that women make when they choose to have sex certainly should apply to men. But I was only saying to be consistent, its bullshit to not let men opt out of it. I think we agree here more or less.
We're both arguing a moot point at the moment.

Quote:
I think its more than just protection for the stupid. There is no point in getting into this digression though.
Sure there is:
Arguing for the sake of arguing.


Quote:
To dissect this claim, I'm going to cover two mutually exclusive scenarios:

1. A given religion actually is "true."
If this is the case, then it is self-evident that your claim is void.

2. All religions are complete and utter bullshit.
If this statement is true, then what really distinguishes ideologies and mentalities which are inspired by myth from those that aren't? The authors of those myths had their own self-determined prejudices and ideas about right and wrong the same as you and I. If Man made God, then ultimately the "Word of God" is the "Word of Man" which is fundamentally equal to the word of Hvergelmir. So you cannot disqualify one philosophy with your own perspective just because that philosophy has its inspiration in theological mythology while yours originated in contemporary society. Its like playing rock paper scissors and saying "my rock beats your rock" because your rock is formed with the left hand and mine, the right.
You wrote all that because I said I was "Non-religious"?
Ok, I'll bite:
1.) I'll agree that if any one religion proves to be true, that I was in fact wrong about being non-religious.
The question is which one is the right one?
If you're going by popularity it'd be Islam, unless you lump all the different offshoots of Christianity together.

2.)
I have no issues with religion with two exceptions:
a) You don't force your religion on either other people, or myself.
b) You don't kill people in the name of religion.

Basically:
If you try to convert me to your religion(regardless of your choice of Deity), you're a douchebag.
If you try to kill me, because I don't believe in the same invisible friend you're no better than Hitler.

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  #36  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:26 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

An acorn is not a tree, a fetus is not a child. Better to nip it in the bud. Reducing the availability of abortion and/or making it illegal is effectively forcing your opinion of it on other people, which is just wrong.

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  #37  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:44 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

Quote:


Again:
How is allowing choice equitable to anarchy?
Because if we condone just about anything based on the right to "choice," then one-by-one current prohibitions will become nullified as infringements on this person's choice or that. It is like the proverb "You can't please everyone." or no matter what "somebody is offended." So in this way, some law will be determined to interfere with some one or another's claim to liberty/choice. Granted it would almost surely never come to a true state of anarchy where extremes such as murder are permitted as our current cupidity with the concept of choice has the de facto limiting clause placed on it which states that the extent of your rights terminate when they cast a shadow over another person's rights.

Quote:
If they're not blowing it in your face, or the air intakes for the building you're in:
You have no right to complain.
This is doubly true if you drive.
Damn straight. And some environmentalist nutcase would jump all on that dick if cigarettes were ever banned for that cause, hence the proverbial "floodgate." It would create a paradoxical Prison of Liberties.


Quote:
Sure there is:
Arguing for the sake of arguing.
guilty as charged.

Quote:
You wrote all that because I said I was "Non-religious"?
Ok, I'll bite:
1.) I'll agree that if any one religion proves to be true, that I was in fact wrong about being non-religious.
The question is which one is the right one?
If you're going by popularity it'd be Islam, unless you lump all the different offshoots of Christianity together.

2.)
I have no issues with religion with two exceptions:
a) You don't force your religion on either other people, or myself.
b) You don't kill people in the name of religion.

Basically:
If you try to convert me to your religion(regardless of your choice of Deity), you're a douchebag.
If you try to kill me, because I don't believe in the same invisible friend you're no better than Hitler.
Well, no. The reason I wrote all that is not because you made the personal declaration. It is more to do with a pet peeve I have when people in general try to shoot down the ideas contained within a religion on the basis that they are of a religion.

For instance, I am sure you would concede that "nobody" would protest the Ordinances found within the Ten Commandments from "Honor thy father and thy mother" on down whether or not the person believes in the volume in which they are written. An Atheist who more or less lives by those rules would not think twice about the Bible or Hammurabi, or anything else as he abides by them. Thus the atheist has learned to separate the individual (favorable) philosophies of the religion FROM the religion itself.

In this same way I think ALL doctrines of all religions which might provide a person with motives for or against certain politics or what-have-you should be simplified and separated from the wholesale label of the religion they ascribe to when someone wishes to discredit those ideas on the basis that those ideas come from religion which is presumed to be a big fairy tale.

The veracity of a given religion is irrelevant because the "philosophies" of a religion either come from God(s) or from other human beings. And if it is of human beings, they are just opinions of no more or no less merit than anyone else's living or dead. Just perspectives.


It is just the response I have to the fallacy in blaming alleged man-made religion because it does not live up to the standards of other man-made ideologies.

What you believe in (or lack thereof I should say) is not why I said that. I just have some OCD enmity for the fact that society gives secular ideologues a pass when their ideas are no more "supreme" than the man-made ideas of man-made religion.

I hope I explained that well enough.

As far as hitler goes, from the nihilistic perspective, he is neither good nor evil. hitler is trash don't get me wrong. But my "opinions" of right and wrong hold no more weight than hitler's opinions held.

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  #38  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:46 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by Mortalitas View Post
An acorn is not a tree, a fetus is not a child. Better to nip it in the bud. Reducing the availability of abortion and/or making it illegal is effectively forcing your opinion of it on other people, which is just wrong.
The fetus who survived her abortion, or the pre-mature births who survive after being born within the legal abortion time frame are not children? At what magic point did they cease to be fetuses?

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  #39  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:53 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

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Originally Posted by Ninja Delusion View Post
The fetus who survived her abortion, or the pre-mature births who survive after being born within the legal abortion time frame are not children? At what magic point did they cease to be fetuses?
They cease to be fetuses when they're born. LOL. Speaking of which, I don't support late term abortions. That's why I said "nip it in the bud"

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  #40  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:59 PM
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Re: Kansas To Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic 6/30/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalitas View Post
An acorn is not a tree, a fetus is not a child. Better to nip it in the bud. Reducing the availability of abortion and/or making it illegal is effectively forcing your opinion of it on other people, which is just wrong.
Wow I love that analogy!! Thank you Mortalitas =]

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