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Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested 

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Old 02-26-2014, 08:25 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by Johnny Alias View Post


Let's look at the definition of argument, according to the Oxford dictionary:

"an exchange of diverging or opposite views."

The charts you posted - which are incomplete looks at only five or ten year periods by the way - was your sad attempt at exchanging a diverging viewpoint with me. Anybody who can read basic English can see that you posted those charts in an attempt to dispute (or argue) with what I said.

Either that, or you are so high on drugs that you just felt like posting a bunch of charts that have nothing to do with anything.

Which one is it, drug addict?

Oh and thanks for posting the history of drugs, that had so much to do with what we're talking about

fucking drug addicts what else can you expect from them?



You fucking idiot, who cares whether it's due to harsh sentencing or effective police enforcement, they're criminals and they belong in jail. But even if it was due to harsh sentencing, they wouldn't be in prison to serve their sentences at all if it weren't for effective police enforcement to put them in jail in the first place!

God damn it's like I'm arguing with a couple of 12 year olds. And you're too busy smoking joints to understand, but the prison population is highest in the US because (a) the US has the third biggest population of any country in the world and (b) it has a much more efficient police enforcement mechanism than, say India and China so criminals actually get caught for the crimes they commit. Suddenly it's doesn't seem like such a big surprise that the US has a big prison population. Does this make sense to your pot smoke filled head?

As for those evil marijuana growers, yes hopefully we will keep locking them up. El Chapo himself was one of them you fucking dumbass.

Stop smoking so much weed potheads, and actually go educate yourselves. Bunch of fucking weed smoking high school kids.
Did you have to look up the definition of an argument from the dictionary? Keep educating yourself.

You can't comprehend why I posted the history of the drugs that have been introduced to the US legally by the US government itself and not regulated? You really are dense.

What about your charts you posted? It shows a decline since 1970 to 1990, then a rise from 1990 until now. The records on people taking drugs weren't kept until 1970. Before that point, the number was likely higher due to medications that were widely being prescribed and purchased over the counter.

As for us "potheads", we were the ones who founded this great country. George Washington grew it on his farm and even wrote in his journal about messing up a crop by not removing the males soon enough. The prohibition of marijuana is propagated by the lobbyists of the $300 billion/year pharmaceutical companies. The government itself has a patent(6630507) to treat conditions such as "ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention." It is being sit on for the sole purpose of continued profits and prohibition.

As for the prison population of the US being due to our stellar policing, that is another fallacy you're under. The US has the 3rd largest population of any country, but only 4.4% of the world population. Since the "Drug War" started in the 70's, our prison population has more than tripled. The staggering percent of federal prisoners held for drug law violations is 55%. The percent of state prisoners held for drug law violations is 21%.

The pro-reform Drug Policy Alliance estimates that when you combine state and local spending on everything from drug-related arrests to prison, the total cost adds up to at least $51 billion per year. Over four decades, the group says, American taxpayers have dished out $1 trillion on the drug war.









Population percentages.
China 19.04%
India 17.4%
United States 4.44%
Indonesia 3.5%
Brazil 2.81%

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Old 02-26-2014, 09:01 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
Did you have to look up the definition of an argument from the dictionary? Keep educating yourself.
It was reproduced for your benefit, to teach you the meaning of the word "argument." Now that I have shown you the definition of the word, do you fully understand what it means? Do you realize now how stupidly you failed to understand and apply such a basic word in the English language?

Now, your next lesson is basic traffic signs. The red means stop, the yellow means slow down, and the green means that you can go ahead and drive.

See how much you've learned today?

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Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
You can't comprehend why I posted the history of the drugs that have been introduced to the US legally by the US government itself and not regulated? You really are dense.
We are talking about how El Chapo deserves to go to jail, and you copy some website's history of the introduction of drugs into America and post it here??

oh ok but I'm the one who's dense LMAO

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
What about your charts you posted? It shows a decline since 1970 to 1990, then a rise from 1990 until now. The records on people taking drugs weren't kept until 1970. Before that point, the number was likely higher due to medications that were widely being prescribed and purchased over the counter.

As for us "potheads", we were the ones who founded this great country. George Washington grew it on his farm and even wrote in his journal about messing up a crop by not removing the males soon enough. The prohibition of marijuana is propagated by the lobbyists of the $300 billion/year pharmaceutical companies. The government itself has a patent(6630507) to treat conditions such as "ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia. Nonpsychoactive cannabinoids, such as cannabidoil, are particularly advantageous to use because they avoid toxicity that is encountered with psychoactive cannabinoids at high doses useful in the method of the present invention." It is being sit on for the sole purpose of continued profits and prohibition.

As for the prison population of the US being due to our stellar policing, that is another fallacy you're under. The US has the 3rd largest population of any country, but only 4.4% of the world population. Since the "Drug War" started in the 70's, our prison population has more than tripled. The staggering percent of federal prisoners held for drug law violations is 55%. The percent of state prisoners held for drug law violations is 21%.

The pro-reform Drug Policy Alliance estimates that when you combine state and local spending on everything from drug-related arrests to prison, the total cost adds up to at least $51 billion per year. Over four decades, the group says, American taxpayers have dished out $1 trillion on the drug war.









Population percentages.
China 19.04%
India 17.4%
United States 4.44%
Indonesia 3.5%
Brazil 2.81%
Anybody who knows anything about drug abuse knows that recreational drug abuse peaked in the US in the 1970s. Have there been fluctuations since then? Of course there have. Rarely does drug abuse just go down in a straight line over a 50 year period. Are you really this stupid that I have to even point this out to you. Mind you, I just spent two (yes two!) posts here trying to educate you on the meaning of the basic English word "argument."

As for your claim that Washington was a pothead, there are absolutely zero contemporary accounts suggesting either Washington or Jefferson ever indulged in, advocated, or even mentioned smoking pot. They grew hemp, but as clothing for their slaves. You do know they had slaves right? Maybe we should legalize that as well, since your argument is that whatever the founders of the United States thought was ok should be legalized today too. This is just an example of how the pro-drug weed-loving lobby in the US tries to twist the truth and pull a fast one over the heads of the American public. And sadly, many ignorant Americans are too stupid to even realize what they're being told is a lie.

As for your figures, they're full of so many holes I don't even know where to begin. First of all, you're obtaining your figures from a pro-drug website. Is it really a mystery that they would make stuff up in order to try to make it look like drugs are good for you? Where are they getting this $51 billion figure that they link to incarceration? If you guessed they made it up out of thin air, you would be correct!

Keep smoking the good stuff, I can see in your arguments just how drug use has absolutely no affect on people

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Old 02-26-2014, 09:41 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
Could you be any more an an arrogant fox news idiot than you already are? Doubtful.

I was responding to your post to rob about how it's our stellar police force that our prison population is so large. Did I ever say El Chapo shouldn't be locked up in jail? No. In fact I think he should be executed because he caused to much violence. But the fact remains that now he is gone, there will be a power struggle for control and more violence.

Factor is correct when he says the reason he got caught is probably because he ripped off a millionaire in the states. Between 2000 and 2012, DEA agents met more than 50 times with "El Chapo" and other cartel members on Mexican territory, without the knowledge of Mexican authorities, to obtain information on rival drug gangs. In exchange for that information, as long as it turned out to be true the DEA offered an array of future benefits, including dropping charges pending against Sinaloa members. That strategy was authorized by David Gaddis, then the DEA director of operations for the region.

There was nothing differentiating recreational and "other" drugs before the 1970 when the "War on Drugs" started. More people were using drugs then that we now consider illegal and recreational. You have your own foot in your mouth at this point and don't even realize it.

Botanically, marijuana equals hemp. As we've established in the past, these are basically two names for the same plant. No great social stigma was attached to smoking pot in the late 1700s and early 1800s — pot use wasn't considered a problem until the early 1900s. In Washington's diary for August 7, 1765, Washington writes, "Began to separate the Male from the Female hemp … rather too late." Female marijuana plants are the ones that contain enough THC to be worth smoking. Some take this to mean Washington was cultivating the plant not just for fiber.

Do you need to have me go search wikipedia for you to get the definition of an estimate? You do realize every estimate is numbers pulled out of thin air based on facts right?

Keep hating life all you want, but no need to bring the rest down with you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3034310.html
http://www.drugpolicy.org/wasted-tax-dollars




Oh boy, yes tell us more about how this pro-drug organization and its "estimates" prove how drugs are good for all of us

You posted figures stating that half of all people in prison in the US are there because of drugs. As if this is a bad thing lol

You do realize that a lot of those drug offense are serious ones involving crimes such as murder, conspiracy, and trafficking, and that a lot of those drugs include crack cocaine, heroin, and meth in addition to weed? People don't usually go to prison because they smoke a joint, they usually go to prison because judges have given them chance after chance to reform yet those criminals went ahead and committed more progressively serious crimes. And I'm willing to bet $100 that those drug convictions often included convictions or at least incidents which included things like assault, intimidation, trafficking, and murder.

If you guys think that the DEA was more concerned with taking out a few foot soldiers rather than the El Chapo, who gave them the orders and organized everything, I really don't know what to say other than you guys are probably even dumber than you sound. As for these clandestine meetings where the DEA met with El Chapo to make agreements with him, please give us some proof. You and X Factor merely stating that it happened isn't really convincing

As for Washington, like I said there is absolutely zero contemporary evidence that he ever smoked weed. You know this, and I know this. And even if he had, I think it goes without saying by using the slavery example, we can at least agree that some things that Washington thought were ok back then, probably wouldn't be ok today.

And how do you think El Chapo made his money? If you guessed that he got half of his revenues from weed, you would be correct.

Your problem is, I think you're turning this into a pro-weed debate.. that is, that weed should be legalized. Will El Chapo's arrest cause a power vacuum leading to more violence? Yes probably. But Rome wasn't built in a day. The Mexican drug cartels won't be destroyed overnight. It will take time, but the Colombian success has showed us that it is possible.

My only argument is that we shouldn't stop fighting crime just because it still exists. There are ways to reduce it, as successful examples have shown. Some examples include the dramatic reduction of crime in New York, in Colombia, and in the United States as a whole just to name a few examples.

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Old 02-26-2014, 10:07 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by Johnny Alias View Post
Oh boy, yes tell us more about how this pro-drug organization and its "estimates" prove how drugs are good for all of us

You posted figures stating that half of all people in prison in the US are there because of drugs. As if this is a bad thing lol

You do realize that a lot of those drug offense are serious ones involving crimes such as murder, conspiracy, and trafficking, and that a lot of those drugs include crack cocaine, heroin, and meth in addition to weed? People don't usually go to prison because they smoke a joint, they usually go to prison because judges have given them chance after chance to reform yet those criminals went ahead and committed more progressively serious crimes. And I'm willing to bet $100 that those drug convictions often included convictions or at least incidents which included things like assault, intimidation, trafficking, and murder.

If you guys think that the DEA was more concerned with taking out a few foot soldiers rather than the El Chapo, who gave them the orders and organized everything, I really don't know what to say other than you guys are probably even dumber than you sound. As for these clandestine meetings where the DEA met with El Chapo to make agreements with him, please give us some proof. You and X Factor merely stating that it happened isn't really convincing

As for Washington, like I said there is absolutely zero contemporary evidence that he ever smoked weed. You know this, and I know this. And even if he had, I think it goes without saying by using the slavery example, we can at least agree that some things that Washington thought were ok back then, probably wouldn't be ok today.

And how do you think El Chapo made his money? If you guessed that he got half of his revenues from weed, you would be correct.

Your problem is, I think you're turning this into a pro-weed debate.. that is, that weed should be legalized. Will El Chapo's arrest cause a power vacuum leading to more violence? Yes probably. But Rome wasn't built in a day. The Mexican drug cartels won't be destroyed overnight. It will take time, but the Colombian success has showed us that it is possible.

My only argument is that we shouldn't stop fighting crime just because it still exists. There are ways to reduce it, as successful examples have shown. Some examples include the dramatic reduction of crime in New York, in Colombia, and in the United States as a whole just to name a few examples.
Did I ever say the estimates of how much drug incarceration was costing the country means drugs are good for us? I'm hoping that was your attempt at humor, because if that's what you really got out of those statistics you are a true idiot.

Yes, half the prisoners in the US being there for drug offences is a bad thing. If they took that same money and spent it toward rehabbing drug addicts, the problem would begin to resolve within itself.

You think people get charged with a drug offense from crimes such as murder, conspiracy, assault and intimidation? Those are completely different crimes that are not drug related offences. Those people deserve to be locked up.

Let me just tell you every detail about the secret DEA meetings..
http://www.latintimes.com/el-chapo-g...-rivals-144694
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-u...-cartel-2014-1

His journal didn't specifically mention Washington smoking marijuana, it was one of the most widely used medicines of the time and it can be assumed it used it in some was medicinally. Even Queen Victoria of the same era imported Cannabis from the US to use in her tea for menstrual cramps.

You say I'm trying to turn this into a pro weed debate, but in fact you are doing that yourself. By saying El Chapo got half his revenues from weed, would it not stand to reason that legalizing and taxing marijuana would cripple drug cartels and bring in billions in tax revenue?

Colombian success?? Columbia still produces the cast majority of cocaine. They have double the amount of acres under cultivation for coca leaf. Peru gets a better yield per acre but doesn't produce the number of Columbia. You really should research things before you say them..

Who said anything about stopping fighting crime? Facts are what proves the ending of prohibition reduces violence.

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  #35  
Old 02-26-2014, 10:39 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by Johnny Alias View Post


Let's look at the definition of argument, according to the Oxford dictionary:

"an exchange of diverging or opposite views."

The charts you posted - which are incomplete looks at only five or ten year periods by the way - was your sad attempt at exchanging a diverging viewpoint with me. Anybody who can read basic English can see that you posted those charts in an attempt to dispute (or argue) with what I said.

Either that, or you are so high on drugs that you just felt like posting a bunch of charts that have nothing to do with anything.

Which one is it, drug addict?

Oh and thanks for posting the history of drugs, that had so much to do with what we're talking about

fucking drug addicts what else can you expect from them?



You fucking idiot, who cares whether it's due to harsh sentencing or effective police enforcement, they're criminals and they belong in jail. But even if it was due to harsh sentencing, they wouldn't be in prison to serve their sentences at all if it weren't for effective police enforcement to put them in jail in the first place!

God damn it's like I'm arguing with a couple of 12 year olds. And you're too busy smoking joints to understand, but the prison population is highest in the US because (a) the US has the third biggest population of any country in the world and (b) it has a much more efficient police enforcement mechanism than, say India and China so criminals actually get caught for the crimes they commit. Suddenly it's doesn't seem like such a big surprise that the US has a big prison population. Does this make sense to your pot smoke filled head?

As for those evil marijuana growers, yes hopefully we will keep locking them up. El Chapo himself was one of them you fucking dumbass.

Stop smoking so much weed potheads, and actually go educate yourselves. Bunch of fucking weed smoking high school kids.
You really are exceptionally stupid

Are you familiar with the term per capita? No? It means as in highest percentage. Not only is the overall number of prisoners high, the percentage is also the highest which has fuck all to do with being a populous nation.

Of course you'll just keep on attributing this to efficient policing even though the spike in prison is for drug offences, and happened at he same time that drug sentences got retarded
I guess the police suddenly became better at EXACTLY the same time?

I drug test for my job. I am subject to random testing at any time, for almost any reason, and test prior to beginning at any new site. Failure = fired.
Can you say this?

I've smoked enough pot to know that it's got nothing on the social cost of alcohol. It you think otherwise, you"re an ignorant idiot.

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Old 02-26-2014, 10:44 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

Success in Columbia

They went from growing AND distribution to mainly growing. The Mexicans have taken over distribution.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:04 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
Colombian success?? Columbia still produces the cast majority of cocaine. They have double the amount of acres under cultivation for coca leaf.
Oh really?

Let's look at the facts:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-24234210

And I quote "Peru has become the world's main grower of coca leaves" and "UNDOC said that the area of land planted with coca in Colombia was down by 25% from the previous year." Oh and let's not forget this line: "The previous top producer was Colombia, where crop eradication programmes have been successful."

Looks like you've got this "fact" all wrong, much as you have all your other "facts" wrong as well.

Go back to high school, do some more reading, and perhaps you can come here and mount a plausible argument that won't be laughed at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob666 View Post
You really are exceptionally stupid

Are you familiar with the term per capita? No? It means as in highest percentage. Not only is the overall number of prisoners high, the percentage is also the highest which has fuck all to do with being a populous nation.

Of course you'll just keep on attributing this to efficient policing even though the spike in prison is for drug offences, and happened at he same time that drug sentences got retarded
I guess the police suddenly became better at EXACTLY the same time?

I drug test for my job. I am subject to random testing at any time, for almost any reason, and test prior to beginning at any new site. Failure = fired.
Can you say this?

I've smoked enough pot to know that it's got nothing on the social cost of alcohol. It you think otherwise, you"re an ignorant idiot.
Yes, I think you have just broken the record for most times saying the word "idiot" in an internet forum thread. You are no doubt a very intelligent individual. Your parents, and drug testing colleagues, must all be very proud of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob666 View Post
I've smoked enough pot
No need to tell us how much pot you've smoked in your life, your arguments and the manner in which you speak have already told us volumes about your station in life.

Anyways, if you think the people who are in US prisons shouldn't be there, that's your (uneducated, ignorant) opinion. I happen to think that 99.9% of them are there because they committed very serious crimes. And yes, many of those crimes involve drugs or are drug related. As I've said before, people don't go to jail because they've smoke a joint of weed. They go to jail because judges have repeatedly given them chances to shape up and they have refused and have instead committed progressively worse crimes, often involving assault, weapons, intimidation, conspiracy, trafficking, and other forms of violence. They committed crimes which people and legislators have deemed should be punished with jail time. If you don't agree with it, then write to your local congressman and don't complain about it with anonymous people on the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob666 View Post
Success in Columbia

They went from growing AND distribution to mainly growing. The Mexicans have taken over distribution.
Nobody said the problem was completely solved. But in case you hadn't heard, the war against drugs has been relatively successful in Colombia:

http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...anlon-petraeus

And I quote:

"Colombia has come a long way in its half-century fight against drug trafficking, insurgency, kidnapping, and murder. At a time of acute doubt over the future of the Middle East in particular, Colombia provides a model for hope as well as a reminder of what is required to make such progress possible."

Go back to your high schools and your community colleges, ya fucking bunch of dropout drug addicts. Read up some more, and maybe then you'll be able to come back here and state facts that are actually true.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:17 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Alias View Post
Oh really?

Let's look at the facts:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-24234210

And I quote "Peru has become the world's main grower of coca leaves" and "UNDOC said that the area of land planted with coca in Colombia was down by 25% from the previous year." Oh and let's not forget this line: "The previous top producer was Colombia, where crop eradication programmes have been successful."

Looks like you've got this "fact" all wrong, much as you have all your other "facts" wrong as well.

Go back to high school, do some more reading, and perhaps you can come here and mount a plausible argument that won't be laughed at.



Yes, I think you have just broken the record for most times saying the word "idiot" in an internet forum thread. You are no doubt a very intelligent individual. Your parents, and drug testing colleagues, must all be very proud of you.



No need to tell us how much pot you've smoked in your life, your arguments and the manner in which you speak have already told us volumes about your station in life.

Anyways, if you think the people who are in US prisons shouldn't be there, that's your (uneducated, ignorant) opinion. I happen to think that 99.9% of them are there because they committed very serious crimes. And yes, many of those crimes involve drugs or are drug related. As I've said before, people don't go to jail because they've smoke a joint of weed. They go to jail because judges have repeatedly given them chances to shape up and they have refused and have instead committed progressively worse crimes, often involving assault, weapons, intimidation, conspiracy, trafficking, and other forms of violence. They committed crimes which people and legislators have deemed should be punished with jail time. If you don't agree with it, then write to your local congressman and don't complain about it with anonymous people on the internet.



Nobody said the problem was completely solved. But in case you hadn't heard, the war against drugs has been relatively successful in Colombia:

http://www.brookings.edu/research/op...anlon-petraeus

And I quote:

"Colombia has come a long way in its half-century fight against drug trafficking, insurgency, kidnapping, and murder. At a time of acute doubt over the future of the Middle East in particular, Colombia provides a model for hope as well as a reminder of what is required to make such progress possible."

Go back to your high schools and your community colleges, ya fucking bunch of dropout drug addicts. Read up some more, and maybe then you'll be able to come back here and state facts that are actually true.
You must have the most court room losses of any lawyer. From the 10 things I mentioned you only respond about Columbia trying to make the induction that everything else I said was incorrect. Typical legal douche-bag defense lawyer tactic of deflection. Too bad my statistics about Columbia are correct proving you wrong once again.

Your "proof" is an article that doesn't mention the amount of cocaine being produced in Columbia. It has more to do with the violence due to prohibition. The fact remains that Columbia has DOUBLE the acres dedicated to growing coca than the second leading producer Peru. While the Peruvian fields get a better yield, Columbia still produces more. Columbia is much safer these says, but they still produce the most cocaine in the world.

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  #39  
Old 02-26-2014, 11:23 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

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Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
You think people get charged with a drug offense from crimes such as murder, conspiracy, assault and intimidation? Those are completely different crimes that are not drug related offences. Those people deserve to be locked up.
Are you mentally retarded or are you just playing stupid? Do you have any idea how arrests and convictions get played out in daily court rooms? People are rarely charged with only one crime. Usually they're charged with a host of offenses, and often prosecutors plead the crimes down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
Ok wow this just answers my question about whether you're just playing stupid or are just retarded. You're clearly just retarded.

Of course police and the DEA have to make deals with unsavoury characters, that's often the only way they can get to the big fish. It's been used effectively against the Mafia in the US, where government agents would have to forge links with informants and offer them deals in order to take out the bigger criminals. It's a basic method of police work. What are you, like thirteen years old so you don't understand this??

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustifiableHomicide View Post
You say I'm trying to turn this into a pro weed debate, but in fact you are doing that yourself. By saying El Chapo got half his revenues from weed, would it not stand to reason that legalizing and taxing marijuana would cripple drug cartels and bring in billions in tax revenue?
No, the cartels would not be crippled because they'd still be earning billions of dollars from meth, heroin, cocaine, crack, kidnapping, and murder. But according to your logic, maybe we should just give up and legalize all those things too since we can't eradicate them.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:24 PM
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Re: Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman Arrested

Virtually all coca comes from three countries: Bolivia, Colombia and Peru. The slopes of the Andes provide perfect conditions for the coca bush, whose leaves Andean people were chewing long before the arrival of European explorers. Chomped or boiled up as tea, the leaves provide a mild, caffeine-like buzz which dulls hunger and cold. Combined with a few everyday chemicals it makes the much stronger cocaine. Colombia was not always the biggest producer: in 1990 it was responsible for only 19% of the coca market, behind both Bolivia and Peru. But government crackdowns in Peru, and then Bolivia, drove the trade over the border into Colombia. In 1995 it overhauled Bolivia, and then overtook Peru in 1997 to become the world’s main supplier of coca leaves. Although it may lead the world in coca leaf production, it doesn't lead in cocaine production.

History suggests that Peru’s dramatic reining in of coca production in the 1990s helped push the business into Colombia. Now that Colombia is cutting down, the industry seems to be moving back into Peru, where production of coca has increased by some 40% since 2000. The trafficking business, meanwhile, has been taken on by Mexican “cartels”, with appalling results in Mexico. Drug-policy geeks call this the “balloon effect”: pushing down on drug production in one region causes it to bulge somewhere else. Latin Americans have a better phrase: the efecto cucaracha, or cockroach effect. You can chase the pests out of one corner of your house, but they have an irritating habit of popping up somewhere else.

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