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Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid 

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  #181  
Old 05-01-2016, 12:02 AM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by niknik View Post

There is a good bit of paranoia in these statements. When did the Jews seek to destroy Islam?
I don't get it either. Jews and Muslims have fought side by side against Christians throughout history. You would think they'd be chummy by now.

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  #182  
Old 05-01-2016, 12:49 AM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by niknik View Post
No, your religion sees the Jews a infidels. Your religion has hated the Jews since it's inception. Since Mohammed said he would expel all Jews from the Arabian Peninsula, and declared the Jews cursed by Allah. As he killed and stole from the Jews. Because they didn't recognize him as a prophet.

The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews." - repeated a million times by Muslims throughout history.

A twelfth-grade Saudi textbook is teaching hatred of Jews and jihad to liberate Palestine, according to MEMRI. The report illustrates that hatred and violence continue to be themes in Saudi educational materials, putting a black mark on the conservative Islamic kingdom's desire to become a "knowledge society."

"Whoever studies the nature of the conflict between the Muslims and the Jews understands an important fact, [namely that] this is a religious conflict, not a dispute about politics or nationality, or a conflict between races or tribes, or a fight over land or country, as some describe it," states Saudi textbook Studies from the Muslim World.

The book says that the conflict will not end unless one side vanquishes the other, because "throughout Islamic history, the Jews have striven to destroy the [Islamic] religion and spread fitna [chaos] among the Muslims. The book also repeats classic anti-Semitic lies that Jews have taken control of Western media and culture, exploited their home societies, and aligned themselves with Christians to destroy Islam.” (Saudi High School Textbook Preaches Hate, Dec. 8, 2011)

There is a good bit of paranoia in these statements. When did the Jews seek to destroy Islam? The Muslims have persecuted the Jews from the time of Mohammed. They have outnumbered the Jews for centuries. Jews have been forced to depart Muslim countries so that very few are left in those countries.
Dude.
You're preaching to the choir and you don't even realize it. The narration about Muhammad expelling the Jews is from Bukhari... a Sunni collector of hadith that would deny that I'm even a Muslim. Furthermore, even though his narrations are considered nearly impeccable by Sunni traditions, they contain errors even by Bukhari's standards of grading.
Umar was the one who expelled the Jews... the same Umar that fought a WAR against the Muslims who wouldn't pledge allegiance to him, including Muhammad's own family. You think I'm going to make excuses for that?
And the Saudis... good gravy, man. How many times have I said that they are evil scumbags yet YOU have defended them?

You are making claims that only work if you generalize Muslims as a monolithic community, of which we certainly are not.

And this is rich... Jews as infidels. Only English-speaking Muslims use the word infidel, which has its origin in the Christian church denoting Muslims and Jews. But, screw comparative studies right?
Jews and Christians are People of the Book. There IS a command in the Qur'an about banning people from the Sacred Mosque, but that is towards the pagans and their idols... not Jews or Christians. Again, the Qur'an mentions Jews and Christians in Paradise. I know that goes against your preferred narrative, but how many other religions believe that OTHER religion's follower go to "heaven"?

You see, you're reading the commentaries of ONE view of history... that of the Sunnis. Meanwhile, the Shias were being slaughtered en masse from the time of Muhammad's death until today. Most classical Sunni texts say that we aren't even "real" Muslims anyway. Not only that, but they said that we have a Jewish origin. Just be aware of who you are reading from is all I'm saying. Using Sunni texts to tell me about Islam is like using the diaries of pioneers to teach Native Americans about their history.

Ali ibn Abi Talib, the cousin and later the son-in-law of Muhammad, is who we (Shia) consider the first leader after Muhammad died. He said that there are two kinds of people:
"those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you"

Regarding the paranoia, you are correct. Many, many, many Muslims equate Zionism with Judaism and have searched for some kind of religious justification for their hatred. They hear stories of some Jews being turned into apes and pigs (which... obviously wouldn't still be alive today) and therefore think (and preach) that Jews are apes and pigs. Frankly, it's disgusting. The Saudis make a nice profit from it.
Historically, though, some of the Jewish tribes of Arabia did in fact attempt to destroy Islam during its formation. There were about 14 Jewish tribes in Arabia, 3 of which feature prominently in the early history of Islam (since you're using Sunni sources, this should be easy for you to find):
1. Banu Qaynuqa
2. Banu Nadir
3. Banu Qurayza
Feel free do exercise your eyes and find out why there were suspicions. Hint: assassination attempts, broken treaties, and forming alliances with the opposition typically don't make for good neighbors.
The problem among Muslims is that many of them see these three tribes as being representative of the Jewish people. This generalization is problematic, especially when Muslims complain about being generalized. As stated earlier, though, we are anything but monolithic.

Take note that your supposition, that Muslims are inherently oppressive to Jews, is not unique to Islam and certainly isn't totally accurate.
Europe was a nightmare for Jews. Not just compared to Islamic empires (especially in Spain), but just generally. Here's the thing, throughout history pretty much everybody has hassled the Jews. Muslims, however, have been far more tolerant than their Christian co-religionists right up until Zionism reared it's ugly head.

And that's a big problem. The Jews have been a Diaspora for a long time. You can read in their own scriptures how that came to be if you like, but the fact is that they were cast out and separated. It's tough to maintain the survival of your people like that, so it's only natural to do what's best for you. Sometimes, that means forming alliances with wealthier or more established groups. I don't prefer to call it scheming or conspiracy, but that's what's happened. Collaboration was a part of staying alive for many of the world's Jews. In no way does that excuse antisemitism, and most antisemitism is fueled by accusations that are false anyway (that stupid "Elders of Zion" book).

Beyond all of this... it has nothing to do with Israel today and why they aren't enemies with ISIS. A subject that some here refuse to discuss.

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  #183  
Old 05-01-2016, 04:49 AM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

Why not use this money to help injured American veterans or Americans who are homeless?

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  #184  
Old 05-01-2016, 03:30 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Why not use this money to help injured American veterans or Americans who are homeless?
"God bless our troops"

Now let's send them off to get blown up and then block their benefits when they're surviving on welfare.

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  #185  
Old 05-01-2016, 04:56 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

I'm merely pointing out some facts. And some interpretations.

You say Muslims and Jews don't dislike each other because of religion. I think there's thousand years + of evidence that proves religion does play a significant part.

And I believe from what I've read Israel has teamed with Egypt and Hamas to fight isis. Israel has allowed Hamas to set up military checkpoints along Israeli borders to catch isis infiltration. My understanding is Egypt and Israel have already prevented the spread of isis into their territories by working together.

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  #186  
Old 05-01-2016, 06:20 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

Just as there is "evidence" supporting that Christianity and Judaism is in a perpetual state of enmity for even more centuries than Islam has been in existence.

The evidence, however, is based on lust for power, racism, and conspiracy theories rather than scripture... in both accounts.

This is what is so misunderstood-
Christians in Gaza* are in the same boat as Muslims... because they are Palestinians. Not because of their faith. Hence, Arab-Israeli Conflict.

*I don't really see how Israel has a choice. The West wanted democracy, and Gaza voted in Hamas. Be careful what you wish for is the lesson to learn here.


What gets lost in the news feeds is that it is the radicals on every side causing the disturbances. Jewish Israelis and Arab Palestinians cooperate on a daily basis. The Jewish settlers that attack Arabs, burn churches, and take over plots of land are not the same as the Jewish people who just live their lives. Likewise, the Arabs who conduct suicide bomb campaigns are not the same as Arabs who just want to go to school without an airstrike ruining their day.

The antisemitism is based mostly on false narratives. Anti-Israel sentiment (as in against the state itself, it's policies and objectives) is rooted in geopolitical strife.

You have to see it from a Palestinian (again, the ethnicity... not simply Muslim but Christians as well) perspective:
They didn't gas the Jews. They didn't have a say in the division of their lands, and they definitely didn't have the capacity to defend against the invasion or occupation.
They had every reason to be angry, and every right to defend their homes. Nothing justifies civilian casualties, and nobody is innocent in that regard.

Furthermore, as we use the term Arab-Israeli conflict, we often confuse and combine the terms Arab and Palestinian. Arab is a general concept, but Palestinians are as unique among Arabs as Poles and Italians are among Europeans. Consider the belligerents in WW1 and WW2. You couldn't rightly say that Europeans were all on the same side. The Germans and the British were at war with each other. We don't consider North and South Korea as one group, nor do we equate China and Japan. We shouldn't make the error of conflating Palestinians with other Arab groups. Even moreso, many other Arab countries keep Palestinians as refugee status in an effort to force Israel into following the UN resolutions mandating the Palestinians' right to return to their homes or be compensated otherwise.
Obviously, it isn't working.

It's not nearly as black and white as people make it out to be.

Even when we look at supposed "opposition" nations to Israel, the fog prevents a clear view. Nearly every state in the region makes or has made deals and agreements (including for armaments) with Israel... because most of them are also political allies with the US.

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  #187  
Old 06-01-2016, 02:01 AM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by Oswald2001 View Post
And don't overlook the damage that Sheik Hussein Obama has done to Israeli security during his Reign Of Terror.

The moo slum Obama -and his Fellow Travelers - hate Israel and The Juice almost as much as they hate Whitey and America.
HOLY fucking shitbags! Who the fuck made a hyper-racist, ignorant, islamophobe like you a server supporter. Jesus H Christ. Reality must have taken it's toll on "certain individuals"

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  #188  
Old 06-01-2016, 02:14 AM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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HOLY fucking shitbags! Who the fuck made a hyper-racist, ignorant, islamophobe like you a server supporter. Jesus H Christ. Reality must have taken it's toll on "certain individuals"
All it takes is money.

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  #189  
Old 06-01-2016, 01:21 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

https://www.google.com/search?q=mari...w=1024&bih=537

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  #190  
Old 06-01-2016, 11:57 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

Hey..... don't mess with Ozzie. He is the nicest hyper-racist, islamaphobe on here. And far from ignorant.

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