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Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid 

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  #91  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:35 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by Oswald2001 View Post
It's "The Mossad".
[spoiler]It's mostly people like you.[/spoiler]

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  #92  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:35 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by wmbondurant View Post
Well we should all throw our support behind Iran , al Queda , Hazbollah, Isis , and all the rest of the camel humping barbarians who would have every fag and lesbian set on fire and thrown off a the tallest building ....


Makes good since to me .. !
Why support anyone? Especially as long as Israel's Likudnazis are only doing what they want.

Al Qaeda and ISIS are mortal enemies of Iran and Hezbollah. Shias are good people. It's the American supported Saudis who are the scum of the world.

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  #93  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:51 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by m1324 View Post
Why support anyone? Especially as long as Israel's Likudnazis are only doing what they want.

Al Qaeda and ISIS are mortal enemies of Iran and Hezbollah. Shias are good people. It's the American supported Saudis who are the scum of the world.

Your obviously more knowledgeable on this subject than I ...
I believe in trends ,, you don't have to have all the gross details to follow a directional trend ...

I'm pro Israel , I don't much care about the nuts and bolts of Thier politics ... I'm fairly ignorant about Thier complicated democracy . And it is rather strange and complicated ...

We should have this discussion in 2017 ... The dimensions and dynamics will have changed drastically...

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Old 04-21-2016, 01:52 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by m1324 View Post
Why support anyone? Especially as long as Israel's Likudnazis are only doing what they want.

Al Qaeda and ISIS are mortal enemies of Iran and Hezbollah. Shias are good people. It's the American supported Saudis who are the scum of the world.
Your missing the bigger picture ... They are all Islamists ,, are you ?

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  #95  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:55 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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[spoiler]It's mostly people like you.[/spoiler]

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  #96  
Old 04-21-2016, 02:29 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by wmbondurant View Post
Good gracious,,, you sound brainwashed
Just observant. There's a historical pattern here that's pretty obvious.

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Old 04-21-2016, 02:36 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Just observant. There's a historical pattern here that's pretty obvious.
Exactly, the United States of America stands for free speech and freedom of expression and religion.

And Islam stands for intolerance of other religions, intolerance of freedom of expression and intolerance of free speech ..

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Old 04-21-2016, 05:39 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

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Originally Posted by wmbondurant View Post
Exactly, the United States of America stands for free speech and freedom of expression and religion.

And Islam stands for intolerance of other religions, intolerance of freedom of expression and intolerance of free speech ..
Hm. Well this is going to be a long post, and I apologize for that. On the other hand, I expect few will bother to even read it in its entirety. Sorry/not sorry?

1. Instead of a useful rebuttal to what I posted, you initially said I sounded brainwashed then went for the us vs them. There is a poetic irony there, maybe you can find it.

2. Please, do tell me more about my religion. Perhaps you should consider becoming an imam.


Our government has been involved with the overthrow of about 50 governments in Latin America alone. I shouldn't have to give a history lesson on Africa, Asia, and the Middle East, either. We've made a habit out of overthrowing national leaders (dictators and even elected presidents and prime ministers) and installing our own regimes (sometimes more than once in the same country), and it has come back to bite us on our collective asses many times.
We go about most commonly it in several ways:
1. Overtly, with a uniformed military presence.
2. Overtly, with publicly-acknowledged funding, armaments, sanctions, and rhetoric.
3. Covertly, by:
A. Planting/nourishing the seeds of dissent.
B. Recruiting/training opposition movements, using local, regional, and even completely foreign nationals.
C. Arming/funding any established local opposition.

3C has even included trade deals and sleights of hand involving third parties that may have zero connection whatsoever to the situation in the target location. It's good for plausible deniability, but it doesn't always work out that way. Leaks happen.

Now, there comes the "why" of it all. Historically, the most common reason was commercial interest. Foreign leaders have a habit of increasing taxes/penalties on US companies conducting business in their territories and even governing how much control our businesses are allowed to exert within their borders, sometimes to the point of nationalizing the corporations. When that happens, war has often been the result.
The second most-common reason is opposing ideologies. Nationalism, Communism, Marxism, anti-Imperialism... all have resulted in US intervention in order to stop the spread of ideas that we've considered "dangerous" at one time or another.
Those ideas also have the tendency to become a presursor to the economic conditions listed above, further solidifying "commercial interest" as the prime motivator for US-involved regime changes.

The ugly truth is that American intervention in the form of interfering with foreign governments, whether directly through war or indirectly through subversion, as a result of a threat to the actual security of our nation, is but a tiny fraction.

It's not anti-American or brainwashed for me to tell the truth. I do it out of love for my country. I want to see America prosper and improve its reputation. If I didn't care about my land, I'd just say "screw it, get involved... nothing bad ever happens".

I'll ask you a few questions, though, if you truly feel the way that you do.

1. You say freedom of speech. I'm assuming you've never heard of McCarthyism, blacklisting, The Patriot Act, prior restraint, censorship, etc?
2. You say freedom of expression. You're a man of conservative values... what do you think of things like gay pride parades, and how does that influence your vote?
3. You say freedom of religion. Now do you really mean that, or would you exclude certain religions that you feel are disagreeable? This isn't just directed at you, but in the bigger picture. You have people like Oswald who like your post, yet openly call for the removal of all Muslims from the United States. That in itself is a fundamental barrier to freedom of religion. How would a politician's stance about certain religious groups (and what to do with them) influence your vote?
4. Going back to freedom of expression. If citizens of a different country express views that are at odds with ours, to the point that politicians call for war on those people, how would that influence your vote?

Why do I keep asking about your vote?
Well, because there is a difference between what America was, America is, and what people want America to be. When a person votes out of conviction, they are voting for what they want America to be. If that involves a change in established freedoms, what credibility to they have to claim aby desire to protect and advance our freedoms? Furthermore, what credibility do they have in making comparisons between American freedoms and any other place if they would advocate restrictions on the very freedoms they are espousing?

America is more than just a nation of states and territories. America is an ideology, and like all ideologies it varies depending on the individuals who adopt it. Islam is a religion. Within the Muslim community, however, there are multiple conflicting ideoligies. Some of them see restrictions on freedom and discrimination (even extermination) against others as a fundamental part of their belief. Others abhor even the idea of it. By saying Islam does anything*, you are (deliberately or inadvertently) including opposing beliefs in the same group.
*Islam, again, is a religion. Though not necessarily incorrect, it would be a bit of a misnomer to say that a religion "does" or is responsible for anything. Religions are basically inanimate concepts, and whether or not people follow them "correctly" (or even at all) not only is another matter entirely, but has no bearing on the actual religion itself. You see, a religion can exist without followers. Concepts and ideas are not physical objects and require nothing in order to "be", just as most deities that people choose to worship are considered independent of time and space and require nothing in order to continue.

You'd be more correct if you said "some Muslims believe/disbelieve" in whatever you want to refer to. Otherwise, saying that Islam stands for intolerance is like saying that America stands for gay marriage. Some Muslims certainly are intolerant in MANY respects (religion, nationality, ethnic background, and so on), yet others live and let live. Some Americans support gay marriage, others want to strike it down.
Which brings me to two more questions-
1. Which groups of Muslims follow Islam, the ones who want to kill everyone else or the ones who protect and shelter others when they are threatened?
2. Along the same concept... which groups of Americans follow Americanism, the ones who support gay marriage or the ones who want it re-illegalized?

All sides use their own chosen references to support their claims.
Consider Saudi Arabia and Iran. Both claim to be Islamic states, yet they are quite different. Women can't drive in Saudi Arabia, and Jews hardly even exist there. Meanwhile, transgendered Iranians can qualify for nearly free state-sponsored gender reassignment surgery and Jews are in parliament. How could you possibly equate those two nations within the framework of the same religious system, when they don't even equate each other? It's like equating Catholics with Protestants. Both may consider the others as hell-bound heretics, yet they both fall under the banner of Christianity... or do they?
Take a look at the Troubles in Ireland if you want a closer look at conflicts between ideologies in the framework of what others consider the same religion.

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  #99  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:36 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

I will have several rebuttals on your post but first you should think of placing insults toward the end of your posts ... It will enable the reader to have more of a willingness to read further ; and with a more open mind ... ... Just a thought ...

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Old 04-21-2016, 10:03 PM
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Re: Israel Rejects 20% Increase in Annual US Aid

#2 I said you soundedbrainwashed and after reading that I'm almost certain of it .

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