Go Back  

If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare 

Current Rating:

Join NowJoin Now
  #1  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:09 PM
johnleeknoefler's Avatar
johnleeknoefler
Offline:
So Fucking Banned
Poster Rank:229
Male
Join Date: May 2010
Contributions: 26
 
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
0/20 13/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss3866
If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

If you are Muslim you can opt out of the Obamacare health care reform laws with no penalties

Gil Guignat

Isn't this nice. If you are of the Muslim religion, you don't have to give all the new Obamacare healthcare reform regulations and penalties another thought. Because the concept of being compelled to participate in such a healthcare program offends Islamic sensibilities, Muslims are specifically exempt.

As a matter of fact if you are Amish, American Indian or a Chistian Scientist you do not need to participate or pay the taxes associated with healthcare reform. That means not having to be forced to buy healthcare insurance, not paying the taxes or the penalties if you don't get it. Nice!

Here is what the regulations say:

EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.

—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information:

In the case of an individual seeking exemption based on the individual’s status as a
member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian,
or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption, such information as the Secretary shall prescribe.”
Senate Bill, H.R. 3590, pages 273-274

There are several reasons why an individual could claim exemption, being a member of a religion that does not believe in insurance is one of them. Islam is one of those religions. Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill. More...

This means that if you are Christian and abortion is against your religion tough luck.

If you are Jewish tough luck as well.

We wonder why these certain groups get a free ride. We also wonder why the largest religious block in North and South America the Christians are discriminated against like this. Very odd indeed.

There is a lot of food for thought here and a lot of ways to object to this healthcare bill, isn't there?
Quote:
Muslims believe that health insurance is “haraam”, or forbidden; because they liken the ambiguity and probability of insurance to gambling. This belief excludes them from any of the requirements, mandates, or penalties set forth in the bill.
Continue reading on Examiner.com If you are Muslim you can opt out of the Obamacare health http://www.examiner.com/small-busine...#ixzz1m6c8KV9Z

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to johnleeknoefler For This Useful Post:
Sharon
  #2  
Old 02-11-2012, 04:52 PM
BlueNosePit's Avatar
BlueNosePit
Offline:
My Rank: MASTER GUNNERY SERGEANT
Poster Rank:227
male
Join Date: May 2011
 
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
1/20 11/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss3886
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

fuck obama, fuck muslims, and fuck you.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BlueNosePit For This Useful Post:
Ballerina
  #3  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:56 PM
Sharon's Avatar
Sharon
Offline:
✝ Moderator ✝
Poster Rank:10
Sparkle and Smut
Join Date: Nov 2008
Contributions: 204
 
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Quoted: 1782 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
6/20 16/20
Today Posts
5/11 ssss51378
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

Now that IS fucking FILTH! There are plenty 'exempt sect' members lapping up our free NHS service. Now Obama is just not good for the people of America. The more I hear, the more I want him out-voted. And I'm Scottish. Bet he'll have all your lamb fucking Halal like they've tried to here. What's wrong with our upright proud nations? Why all this appeasement of certain groups? Why favour non-natives? All this 'so as not to offend' shit. Look. If they were that 'offended' they would not live here. It's white Liberals that come away with that and it's destructive to the country.

__________________
Why not join us at:
http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/register.php
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sharon For This Useful Post:
Ballerina
  #4  
Old 02-11-2012, 06:52 PM
johnleeknoefler's Avatar
johnleeknoefler
Offline:
So Fucking Banned
Poster Rank:229
Male
Join Date: May 2010
Contributions: 26
 
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
0/20 13/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss3866
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon. View Post
Now that IS fucking FILTH! There are plenty 'exempt sect' members lapping up our free NHS service. Now Obama is just not good for the people of America. The more I hear, the more I want him out-voted. And I'm Scottish. Bet he'll have all your lamb fucking Halal like they've tried to here. What's wrong with our upright proud nations? Why all this appeasement of certain groups? Why favour non-natives? All this 'so as not to offend' shit. Look. If they were that 'offended' they would not live here. It's white Liberals that come away with that and it's destructive to the country.
"Now that IS fucking FILTH!"
Yep... It sure is filth. Not the exemption. It's the system that is filth. It started out with exemptions for favored unions and certain states. Then Illegal immigrants weren't supposed to get it just like they aren't supposed to vote but of course with no ID checks that's impossible to enforce. The system is grossly unfair to working class people in that they will have to pay for something that many of them can't even afford now. It also causes the rates to skyrocket and even double the cost over a purely free market system. I applaud the right of Muslims to ask for exemption. I also intend on sueing for exemption. I can't afford health care since Obama came into office and until the economy improves I won't be able to. To force me to pay for what I can't afford is just wrong. Unfair.

" There are plenty 'exempt sect' members lapping up our free NHS service."
It's not really free though is it? Since people are forced to pay for it.

"Now Obama is just not good for the people of America."
Obama is a small part of the problem. He's just the most visible vocal part of a filthy system of corruption and greed.

"The more I hear, the more I want him out-voted"
Ya, me too. But replaced with who? "Anyone but Obama" is the game they have been playing over and over for decades. It's what got us here.

"And I'm Scottish."
Bet you loved "BraveHeart" then.

"Bet he'll have all your lamb fucking Halal like they've tried to here."
We are already beyond that. .gov Whitehouse has many pages devoted to promoting Islam.

"What's wrong with our upright proud nations?"
They are no longer "upright". I post this stuff all the time. Yuri Besmonove interview is posted on google videos for the whole world to see and he describes his small part in the effort to destroy American values of liberty, free speech, our second amendment. Combine that with larger dumbing down efforts and the enslavement of a nation is well under way and in fact mostly already accomplished.

"Why all this appeasement of certain groups?"
It's the concept of divide the masses into conflicting groups who are granted special "rights" while punishing those who are not favored. They call it "selective repression". It's a political tactic. Later they can rescind the special exemptions when it suits them. Just so long as they get it passed now. It's a tactic that works.

"Why favour non-natives? All this 'so as not to offend' shit."
Most of the non-natives as you put it come from repressive regimes that have no concept of human rights. So they are politically useful. The goals of diluting the voice of more enlightened freedom loving majority helps those who wish to gain a stronger more politically powerful ruling class. It's not about not offending. It's about finding a people than can bring in to create as much chaos as possible so there is now a reason to away the rights of all people. What's not desired is repressed. What is desired is rewarded. Obama Politics 101. "Reward your friends and punish your enemies"~Obama
"Look. If they were that 'offended' they would not live here."
Of course the "offense" is pretense. It's useful to pretend outrage at every critique. Whine and scream racism and "Racist go Home" everytime someone speaks out about the very real problems western nations are dealing with. Shuts up the opposition when they deal the "racist" card. Most of those people worried about what is offensive or PC are simply hateful people who can't stand the truth. Muslims and leftists spew some of the most hateful derogatory rhetoric I have ever heard. But they don't mind as long as they are the ones being offensive and racist.
"It's white Liberals that come away with that and it's destructive to the country." Of course it's destructive. That's why they do it. They have drunk deep at the well of class and priviledge. They wish to continue this ideology and perpetuate their delusions. And curse anyone who speaks out.
Welcome to the Brave New World of Big Brother. 17 years late but here it is at last. Enjoy your chains folks. You worked so very hard to forge them.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to johnleeknoefler For This Useful Post:
Sharon
  #5  
Old 02-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Sharon's Avatar
Sharon
Offline:
✝ Moderator ✝
Poster Rank:10
Sparkle and Smut
Join Date: Nov 2008
Contributions: 204
 
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Quoted: 1782 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
6/20 16/20
Today Posts
5/11 ssss51378
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

Thank you for responding to my post John, I appreciated your explanations. You certainly know your stuff and I just nodded away as I read your words. What I don't understand really is if the masses who despise the way the country is going hate it so much, why not vote the parties who - although perhaps too extreme - have the balls to address problems we face? The BNP want to stop immigration and that would be great but the damage is done. It's too late. Yes, our NHS is funded by our taxes, dozy me. It's not free! I can't fathom out why these groups should be exempt from healthcare costs in the US? How on earth is it like gambling? What weird shit!

__________________
Why not join us at:
http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/register.php
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:50 PM
johnleeknoefler's Avatar
johnleeknoefler
Offline:
So Fucking Banned
Poster Rank:229
Male
Join Date: May 2010
Contributions: 26
 
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
0/20 13/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss3866
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharon. View Post
Thank you for responding to my post John, I appreciated your explanations. You certainly know your stuff and I just nodded away as I read your words. What I don't understand really is if the masses who despise the way the country is going hate it so much, why not vote the parties who - although perhaps too extreme - have the balls to address problems we face? The BNP want to stop immigration and that would be great but the damage is done. It's too late. Yes, our NHS is funded by our taxes, dozy me. It's not free! I can't fathom out why these groups should be exempt from healthcare costs in the US? How on earth is it like gambling? What weird shit!
You make good points Sharon. From your own national perspective and you ask good points about our own political situation here in USA.
There are no single answers or magic pills and you ask questions that are interelated so let me try to deconstruct what you are asking and put together a cohesive answer.

Quote:
Thank you for responding to my post John, I appreciated your explanations.
No problem. Serious honest questions deserve serious honest answers.

Quote:
You certainly know your stuff and I just nodded away as I read your words.
Thanks for the compliment. I must admit that I struggle with understanding what is going on in politics and society today and I have to look up alot of stuff because I just hate to not know what's really going on behind the scenes. So I won't pretend to "know it all" but rather if a question comes up I try to find out the truth and toss off the lies and half truths that are deliberately fed the public to keep them confused and compliant.

Quote:
What I don't understand really is if the masses who despise the way the country is going hate it so much, why not vote the parties who - although perhaps too extreme - have the balls to address problems we face?
Now you are asking the good questions. How did Hitler come to control a nation when a minority of people actually supported him? How did Saddam become the bloodthirsty despot with the power to rule over his nation at the threat of death to all who opposed him. I could ask the same question about Stalin or Lenin.
First off one must come to realize that government aid programs have never really been about helping the people. Most of them cost absurdly more money than was at first estimated. Most of them destroy more lives than they save. The government can only give the people what they first take away from the people. If it helps to give people something for nothing then it surely hurts people to take away from them what by rights belongs to them and that they earned with their own efforts. It is a system that rewards failure while penalizing success. The government that has enough power to give you anything also by natural consequence will have enough power to take away everything and will of course in the end do just that.
What you have realized now is a health care system that takes earned money from those who are healthy working class folks who don't need health care and gives to those who don't work and need health care. To some this sounds fair.
Unfortunately it creates a dependancy on government aid. It is a system of wealth redistribution that was tried in Soviet Russia and more than a few other areas of the world and in the end it has always ended in a failure. And even if it didn't it still results in the State having control of the decisions of the individual. For every power granted to the state, the individual must give up a right.
The government welfare systems (the dole I think they call it in UK?) function the same way. To even get financial aid a person must first give up a certain amount of privacy. Then to stay on it more rights must be ceded so the government can try to make sure there is no fraud. On the flip side since these programs must be funded by taxation those who must pay the tax will also be scrutinized to be sure they are not "cheating" the government. So both classes will have their rights to privacy infringed on. Unfortunately fraud is endemic to government aid programs whether it be medical, financial, or educational. I would go so far as to say that ALL government programs of any kind involve fraud and deception. In the end any government will begin to turn on its' beneficiaries and sources of revenue to try to stay solvent. On one side you will have government revenue collectors harrassing those who can pay for ever more revenue to support programs that become bloated with bureaucracy, fraud and waste.

Quote:
“This poster is from the 1930′s, and promotes the Nazi monthly Neues Volk (New People), the organ of the party’s racial office. The text reads:


‘This genetically ill person will cost our people’s community 60,000 marks over his lifetime. Citizens, that is your money.’

Read Neues Volk, the monthly of the racial policy office of the NSDAP.’”
On the other side these same bureaucratic functionaries begin to view the recipients for this wealth as a social burden and a Nazi like disdain for those who burden the system prevails in the government and those who are forced to support those who benefit from this wealth redistribution.
How ever the government has a problem in that they now need the votes of the beneficiaries of this system. They sure won't get the vote of those who hate the system and are enslaved by the current affairs. By these actions they develop a huge class of enemies who are now vilified as right wingers, tea baggers, rednecks (redneck originally refered to working class farmers here in USA) and others (Bitter, Clinging to their guns and bibles"Obama attacks religious faith and second amendment in one comment) who are for the most part in the private sector.
The millions of government workers who directly benefit from public sector employment are also going to vote firmly on the side of any candidate who promises more taxes and more spending. And the dependant class surely for the most part will also vote this way. The tipping point will come when the public sector and the dependant class outweigh the private sector in votes and funding. We here in USA are on the verge of such a tipping point.
Also there is the matter of the corporate structure. Corporations by their very nature NEVER pay actual taxes. These taxes are ALWAYS for the most part passed on to the consumer in higher prices. And of course sales taxes also tend to impoverish the average working class joe who has very little control over his wages unless he can vote with his feet and change jobs. In a down economy this becomes more difficult.
In the beginning social dependancy is created out of the altruistic generosity of the private sector who quite readily accept social programs in the misquided understanding that it's the moral thing to do. Help out the helpless and support those unable to support themselves. All well and good but social institutions have always in the past had this role with no interference from the government. It is only by government meddling that these needs are created in the first place.
Later the tactics of public shame and humilation are used to further expand these dependancy programs and the system of bloat and fraud becomes institutionalized.
Still later when this also becomes insufficient to quench the thirst of the ever more rapacious government appetite for more revenue and more bureauracracy and more dependency the government becomes more forceful and begins to create puplic policy and taxing programs quite apart from the will of the people. When the government bureaucrats discover they can vote themselves raises and create their own rules of conduct the trap is closed.
Those who would vote for freedom and liberty will no longer have a viable voice in the public discourse. Their rights will have been irredeemably lost. Once this paradigm has been crossed the only way back is by force or the natural forces of decay. And no despotic regime has ever died quietly. All regimes that devolve into despotism in the end eat their own children.
I prefer this painting by Reuben over the Saturn painting by Goya to accurately portray this relationship of a government to it's people. In the Reuben painting the savage inhumanity of Saturn is more clearly portrayed and yet he is still clearly a man, while the pitiable suffering of the child is also more vivid in that Reuben openly shows the childs face with the anguish and horror plain for all to see.

Quote:
Ronald Reagan: "Man is not free unless government is limited.... As government expands, liberty contracts."
Quote:
Charley Reese: "Powers once assumed are never relinquished, just as bureaucracies, once created, never die."
So there's a long answer as to why an educated conservative population is vital to preserve freedom and why the unions wish to preserve an iron grip over the schools and the education of the children and the reason for the tyranny of political correctness and the charges of racism against anyone who would speak out against this tyranny. It also will go a long ways to explain why the mainstream media refuses to publish anything against this hedgemony of tyranical force that has been organized against those who would prefer liberty and freedom and personal responsibility over a big brother form of government that is into everything and grants no privacy or freedom to the citizen and conspires to deprive the average citizen of what meager rights they have left. The media are not privately owned. The media outlets are for the most part corporations and by law corporations are arms of the federal centralized governments. All corporations are by their very nature no more than functionaries of the public sector bureauracracy in that they work arm in arm to curtail and restrict the rights of the people. The governments meddle in the interests of the corporations by creating laws and in turn the corporations lobby for waivers, loopholes, and exceptions to those very laws. While these laws rarely if every offer the same exceptions to the private individual unless he also is a member of a union or corporation and can by extension enjoy those exceptions. You want an excemption? Then you just join up to a corporaton, become a government employee, join a union, or go on government assistence. In any case you will no longer be a free and independent person in charge of your own affairs. You will to whatever extent is necessary need to give up some amount of autonomy to have what was once the yours by right. In the end the private sector will be squeezed into poverty, revenue will dry up while private businesses disappear and the government will begin the painful process of eating her children to survive.
This disturbing fountain is in the middle of Bern, Switzerland. Atop the fountain is a statue of a man eating a baby, with two in a sack (he’s presumably saving them for later snacking). The fountain isn’t some controversial work of modern art; it’s the oldest in Bern, dating from the 16th century.
This statue is a representation or re-interpretation of the Greek God Chronus, AKA the Roman god Saturn, who, fearing his children would overthrow him, ate each one as they were born.

On the other side of the scale the state eventually turns on the weakest and those least able to speak for themselves.
Quote:
In Nazi Germany, 908 patients were transferred from Schoenbrunn, an institution for retarded and chronically ill patients, to the euthanasia "installation" at Eglfing-Haar to be gassed. A monument to the victims now stands in the courtyard at Schoenbrunn. At the outbreak of World War II, Hitler ordered widespread "mercy killing" of the sick and disabled. The Nazi euthanasia program, codenamed Aktion T4, was instituted to eliminate "life unworthy of life."
Quote:
- Doctors, not soldiers, were put in charge of killing the elderly and people with disabilities.

In Nazi Germany a Catholic bishop, Clemens von Galen, delivered a sermon in Munster Cathedral attacking the Nazi euthanasia program calling it "plain murder." In 1941, Hitler suspended Aktion T4, which had accounted for nearly a hundred thousand deaths by this time. The euthanasia program quietly continued using drugs and starvation instead of gassings.

Moral Viewpoint - As a final act of abandonment, tens of thousands of people who died in our state institutions were buried anonymously, in graves marked only by numbers. People of the time believed having names on the grave markers would be an embarrassment to the families of the deceased.
So not only did the regime consider persons with disabilities to be less than human in the end they even erased the names of these unfortunate people. The final indignity. To be reduced to namelessness.
Quote:
The BNP want to stop immigration and that would be great but the damage is done. It's too late
I had to look up BNP since I have only the vaguest idea about British politics.
Quote:
The British National Party (BNP) is a British far-right political party formed as a splinter group from the National Front by John Tyndall in 1982. It restricted membership to "indigenous British" people until 2010, after a legal challenge to its constitution.

The BNP advocates "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home", as well as the repeal of anti-discrimination legislation.
The problem with government aid programs is that they actually draw those who intend to become a burden on society. But the bureaucracy needs these people to bring in fresh support and new round of dependancy to swell voter ranks and create a greater need for government intervention. For the same reasons the private sector resents this fresh influx of dependants who often arrive penniless and uneducated. And when they do take jobs it is most often at the bottom rung of employment and young children of the indigineous population must not compete with these immigrants as well as each other for jobs. So not only does the government create class warfare with it's social programs it now creates racial struggles between various immigrant groups and the native population which all must compete for a dwindling supply of tax revenue and jobs.
The left would of course love to have the public believe that "it's too late" to change course. So therefore change nothing. In fact, create more taxes and more laws to further restrict individual freedoms. The real answer would be to end social welfare programs but for the natural born citizens and those who are naturalized citizens. Deny all economic refugees. Deport all illegals as soon as the state becomes aware of them no matter the circumstances. Revoke visas for those who can not support themselves and deport them. Revoke citizenship and deport those who commit crimes and are not natural born citizens. Revoke visas for any infraction down to petty crime excepting minor traffic violations. Babies born to aliens should never be given a status greater than their parents. Illegals begat illegals. Resident aliens begat resident aliens, so forth and so on. Why is it too late? This is the meme of the left. It's always their answer to social problems. The solutions are plain and simple but the left loathes solutions as anathema to their true goals and motives which is and always will be to grow and accrue powers and positions until the government decays of it's own volition in a final carnal orgy of political cannabalism. For an example one needs look no further than the communist regime of France during the age of "Reason" and "Enlightenment" Same for Germany and USSR.
Quote:
Yes, our NHS is funded by our taxes, dozy me. It's not free!
Of course it's not. The problem is once again... who will ultimately bear the burden?
Quote:
I can't fathom out why these groups should be exempt from healthcare costs in the US?[/
This is not the first time National Health Care has faced these problems here in USA. Franklin D. Roosevelt wanted a NHC system here in USA during his regime. It failed because it also was based on a mandated system. Three Jewish men protested and took it to court based on religious principle. They did not ask for an exemption so therefore none was granted. They sued based on the idea that it was unconstitutional. The state had no right to mandate a person purchase anything to begin with and certainly had no right to force a person to violate their religious beliefs. The government failed to make it's case and the health care bill was defeated.
Unfortunately the Muslims could care less about the rest of the country and wish to opt out and get an exemption. They are not fighting on grounds of unconstitutionality.
The Catholic church protests because it forces them to be involved in abortion.
The working class resents this intrusion because it will curtail jobs and often will fall back on them in forcing them to pay for something that many workers feel they don't need. The young resent it because they also don't want or need it and their funds will most often never be used for them. The only people that really want to make use of it are those who will not be paying for it. These are the very groups that are demanding exemptions most. Also many states were exempted for political reasons. To get those in office representing that state to sign it into law. Political prostitution. And some state representatives capitulated because of threats to government expenditures to that state. Political extortion.
It is due to government meddling that health care is now out of reach of many in the working class unless they can get it through union representation. Should I now be forced to purchase what I can no longer afford? Is it fair play to create economic situations that make such protections unavailable and then legislate that I am now required to purchase what I once happily paid for on my own? Millions of people like me will face these decisions in the near future. Who will pay? Corporations? Will they then be more willing to hire if they know they will be forced to pay for such a service? Will it become easier or harder to get a job? We all know the reality of these situations. The sad thing is many will refuse to see this reality for what it is.. There is no free lunch.
Quote:
How on earth is it like gambling? What weird shit!
Oh it's way worse than gambling. Call it reverse gambling maybe. Or the largest wealth redistribution to ever take place. It's theft on a grand scale. A government take over of an entire industry.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to johnleeknoefler For This Useful Post:
EPIC_FAIL
  #7  
Old 02-13-2012, 04:51 PM
BlueNosePit's Avatar
BlueNosePit
Offline:
My Rank: MASTER GUNNERY SERGEANT
Poster Rank:227
male
Join Date: May 2011
 
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
1/20 11/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss3886
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

dude, you got waaaaaaayyyyyy to much time on your hands.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-13-2012, 04:53 PM
johnleeknoefler's Avatar
johnleeknoefler
Offline:
So Fucking Banned
Poster Rank:229
Male
Join Date: May 2010
Contributions: 26
 
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Activity Longevity
0/20 13/20
Today Posts
0/11 sssss3866
Re: If You Are Muslim You Can Opt Out of Obamacare

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueNosePit View Post
dude, you got waaaaaaayyyyyy to much time on your hands.
I love it how people who complain I have too much time on my hand have time to respond to each of my posts with such inane blather.

Reply With Quote

Powered by vBulletin Copyright 2000-2010 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO