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Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare. 

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Old 06-02-2011, 06:05 AM
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Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

First off, I just had to start with this quote. (pointed towards England) Wentzel says an armed citizenry can only strengthen the nation, protect its principles and ensure tyranny could never take over.
"If you have an armed population in the last hour of tyranny, it will be the final check to the imbalance of power that has been misused and abused," says Wentzel. "That's why the founding fathers knew it was one of the pillars and one of the most important rights every citizen has to protect and defend themselves against the tyranny of their own government."


How many of you disagree with what I am about to post regarding armed citizens?


Here in Arizona, one of the rights that we take most seriously is the right to bear arms. We do NOT hesitate to defend ourselves and our family. The sheriff of my county (Maricopa county) has openly stated, on the record, that he wants us responsible citizens to carry firearms to better the county as a whole. We have several laws in place to help justify use of deadly force. We are not required to give any warning what-so-ever, we are not required to retreat (find any possible way out of the situation) like many other states, and we are aloud to carry ANY legal weapon open or concealed out in public without a government permission slip (Concealed weapons permit) if we are over 21.

Remember, a CCW is not REQUIRED in Arizona, if you opt to get one, the only advantage you have is carrying in another state and in bars if you don't consume.

SEDONA, Ariz. -- Be careful who you mess with in Arizona because you never know who might be packing heat.

On July 29, a new concealed-carry weapons law took effect, granting Arizona residents the right to carry concealed weapons without a permit. Before the law was passed, Arizona residents were allowed to carry weapons as long as they were displayed in plain sight. (or with a CCW)

Arizona residents older than 21 who do not have criminal records can carry a concealed weapon almost anywhere, including shopping malls, movies and grocery stores. Only in establishments that serve alcohol are non-permitted carriers forbidden to wear concealed guns.

The law underscores the state's Wild West reputation, and one of Arizona's most notable law enforcement official defends the right to carry concealed arms.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, known across the country as the "toughest sheriff in America" due to his strict enforcement of the law and no-nonsense treatment of criminals, believes the new law works just fine. He isn't concerned there will be more shootings in his state because of it.

"That's a good law," Arpaio said this week. "I support it. People were not shooting each other before the new law was passed when they had the right to open-carry weapons. What's the difference now? Concealed or not, people are not pulling guns out and shooting each other."

But he did say gun owners should be familiar with firearms before carrying. "I hope people get some training before carrying a weapon," Arpaio said. "People need to know how to use a gun."

The right to bear arms is staunchly defended by many in Arizona, even in the city of Sedona, known for its spirituality, natural beauty and liberal views.

Sedona resident Geraldine Shultz, a well-armed senior citizen and business owner in the community, has had a concealed-carry permit for years. She welcomes the new law: "It's the right of the world. We have to protect ourselves." She owns a shotgun and a .38 Police Special.

"I like the .38 Special," Shultz says. "My husband gave it to me. It's light, small enough to carry and effective."

Sedona resident and business owner Will Hamburg, 24, also had a concealed-carry permit before the new law was passed. A victim of an attempted robbery, he wasted no time getting his permit. He says he doesn't carry out of fear, but for simple precaution.

"Two gang members, one with a gun, tried to carjack me while I was pumping gas outside of Taos, N.M.," he says. "The day after that incident I bought a pistol."

Hamburg says he's never had to pull a gun, but believes his training would allow him to handle the situation should he have to.

"I do not carry because I am afraid of what is out there in the streets," he says. "I carry to know that in the event that something happens and someone needs to step up, I know I can. Think about it. If everyone knows that everyone is carrying a weapon, they are less likely to start any kind of confrontation because they know the chances of the other person carrying is very high. Even if the other person is not carrying, someone watching may be. It creates self-governance, in my opinion."

Sedona business owner Brian Wentzel, 32, does not have a carry permit nor intends to get one. For him, he only needs the Constitutional "God-given" right to arm and defend himself.

"People have a right to carry concealed weapons because our rights are given to us by our Creator and not by man," says Wentzel. "They are natural rights and this distinction between where our rights are derived is one of the most important philosophical questions a nation and its people must decide before they write laws."

He said that in America, citizens are born with the rights the founding fathers promulgated. Wentzel says an armed citizenry can only strengthen the nation, protect its principles and ensure tyranny could never take over.

"If you have an armed population in the last hour of tyranny, it will be the final check to the imbalance of power that has been misused and abused," says Wentzel. "That's why the founding fathers knew it was one of the pillars and one of the most important rights every citizen has to protect and defend themselves against the tyranny of their own government."

"Every tyrant in history has known you can't control an armed population. That is why Hitler, Stalin and Mao were strongly against an armed citizenry, while Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and John Adams were for it."

1. 12/19/2010

PHOENIX - Two people have been hospitalized after both were shot during a "beer run" at a Phoenix convenience store early Sunday.
Phoenix Police Department spokesman Sgt. Tommy Thompson said around 1:45 a.m. three Hispanic males were seen taking the beer from a Circle K store near 51st Avenue and McDowell Road and attempting to flee the scene.
As they were running from the store, they pushed a man to the ground who was apparently trying to block their way.
Thompson said a 17-year-old suspect pulled out a handgun and shot the man who had been trying to stop them.
The 25-year-old man then pulled out his own gun and shot the suspect.
Both suffered serious but non-life threatening injuries, according to Thompson.
The two remaining suspects fled the area before police arrived.

2. May. 8, 2008

A Phoenix man shot and killed a suspected robber Thursday, claiming it was a case of self-defense, police said.
The man heard his truck start up in his driveway on the 3000 block of West Flynn Lane at around 12:45 a.m. When he went outside with a gun to investigate, he saw his truck had just been stolen and a man was driving away in it, police said.
The suspect then made a U-turn and drove toward the man who was standing on the sidewalk, police said. He fired several shots at the suspect in the truck, hitting him fatally, police said. The suspect lost control of the vehicle and crashed into a wall. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Phoenix police detectives are investigating the death and working with the Maricopa County Attorney's Office. The man has not been arrested in the shooting, police said.

3. September 2, 2010

Police say a man who shot and killed another who stole his beer in the parking lot of a convenience store before hitting him over the head with a wrench twice was justified in killing him.
Stefan Selvy, 21, who initially was arrested on suspicion of second-degree murder at the store, 7260 S. Power Road, about 7 p.m. Aug. 26, was released from jail. The Maricopa County Attorney’s Office homicide bureau said the shooting appears to be legally justified after reviewing evidence and witness statements, according to Gilbert police.
Selvy had arrived at the Circle K store with his brother, and when they were leaving Bobby Baughman, 36, stole the beer and hit Selvy over the head with a wrench, according to a court document. Selvy ran to his car, retrieved a handgun and chased Baughman before Baughman hit him in the head with the wrench a second time. Selvy then shot and killed Baughman, according to a court document.

I truly am grateful to be a citizen of Arizona. There is no better feeling than knowing that you're aloud to defend yourself, your family, and those around you without punishment.

In my eyes, the worst type of person is a criminal, someone who prays on the weak... Preys on the elderly... Preys on the unsuspecting...

Some of this was written by me, other parts are not by me (i'm sure you all noticed)

What do you guys think?

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Old 06-02-2011, 06:15 AM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

I think Arizona is essentially a part of Mexico now.
You should all carry.

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Old 06-02-2011, 06:24 AM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

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I think Arizona is essentially a part of Mexico now.
You should all carry.
Unfortunately, we are a part of Mexico now. On the other hand, our government is strongly opposing Mexico and illegals in general, but Obama does not think that the invasion of the united states merits use of force by local, state, and federal government. This clown will not be elected again, I promise.

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Old 06-02-2011, 02:12 PM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

Well i'm off to Arizona.

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Old 06-02-2011, 03:38 PM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

Nah guns will never be part of the lives of ordinary citizens here in the UK. They have a completely different philosophy here which derives, in part, from the development of its social class structure over the years.

The use of guns have always been a relatively elitist activity here (for the gentry and aristocracy), and to be honest I'm glad that there are no guns here.

Also I think that cops shouldn't be given the right to bear arms - just like Judge Dredd you're giving them the power to decide who should live or die. They are human just like anyone else, and thus shouldn't have the power to make that decision. As long as the police do not carry guns, then people and civilians are less likely to; there is no need to. This is the philosophy of most Brits I would imagine.

I mean just look at the stats. The US has 4 times the murder rate of the UK (inclusive of all homicides, not just those relating to guns).

Thing is people can use guns in a petty dispute. Take that gun out of the equation and what would have been an unintentional killer (he saw red and pulled the trigger), now isn't a killer. Yeah you could turn around and say they could grab a knife or any other weapon, but you stand a much better chance of survival than against someone with a gun.

Now looking at those stats again it's not really about guns at all because if here in the UK they don't have guns, many seem to assume then that they instead use other means to commit murder. But that obviously isn't the case.

The gun problem America has relates to its culture. If Sweden and Switzerland are just as willing to arm their citizens as the US (Sweden would be more like Switzerland in my view if not for the EU restrictions), why aren't their overall homicide rates anywhere near as high as the US?

Both sides of the equation obviously work. Sweden and Switzerland are examples where armed civilians isn't a problem. Britain, the Netherlands and Japan are the biggest opponents to ordinary folk bearing arms in my view and their crimes rates are also very low. China also to an extent though I don't know about their regulations.

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Old 06-02-2011, 04:26 PM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

MattyD, someone willing to look at both sides.

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Old 06-02-2011, 08:24 PM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

In or about 2006, there were about 60 million people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.

In England and Wales alone — discounting Scotland — there were over 163,000 knife crimes.

By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.

In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400,000 gun crimes.


In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).

In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people — less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).

That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.



The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are affected by differences in the way each counts homicides.

The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn't subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible.

By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible.



America's founders, like their English forebears, regarded personal security as first of the three primary rights of mankind.
That was the main reason for including a right for individuals to be armed in the U.S. Constitution.

Not everyone needs to avail himself or herself of that right. It is a dangerous right. But leaving personal protection to the police is also dangerous.


The English government has effectively abolished the right of Englishmen, confirmed in their 1689 Bill of Rights, to "have arms for their defence," insisting upon a monopoly of force it can succeed in imposing only on law-abiding citizens.

It now is depriving its people of the ability to protect themselves at all, and the result is a more, not less, dangerous society.

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Old 06-02-2011, 09:19 PM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

Ive only been here for 6 months(ish) so take it for what its worth.

Whats keeping Australia from becoming like the US as far as firearms are concerned?
1- Access (Not nearly as easy to get a shotgun here)
2- High concentration of white people (you dont have to pay before you pump your gas)

Just sayin.

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Old 06-02-2011, 10:26 PM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

Rottenflesh, thank you for that. I was going to post some stats but didn't get around to it.

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Old 06-03-2011, 01:14 AM
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Re: Arizona, A Criminals Worst Nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dz View Post
Ive only been here for 6 months(ish) so take it for what its worth.

Whats keeping Australia from becoming like the US as far as firearms are concerned?
1- Access (Not nearly as easy to get a shotgun here)
2- High concentration of white people (you dont have to pay before you pump your gas)

Just sayin.
Petrol Dz, it's called petrol over here mate.

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